Ep 263: Sexy Gritty Gothic Dystopian High Heat Omegaverse Romance Author Marlowe Roy Interview and Book Excerpt Narrated by Ruan. What a fabulous conversation with Marlowe! We chatted about her writing, her books, her writing process, and how she came to write dark Omegaverse fiction books. We discussed heat levels in romance books and how hers is "high heat" with explicit juicy sex scenes. We discussed age diversity in fiction and how often older women are portrayed as not sexy, but not in her books! The older women characters are rich, seasoned, sexy, and experienced; they are layered, complex, and beautiful! We explored the historical trends of authors writing about young people/characters with older mentalities and sensibilities and how this does ring true to the middle-aged and older readers. We both agreed there needs to be more age diversity in books for middle-aged readers to identify with and enjoy the stories. She touched on how there is extra liberty for kink and consent in the Alpha, Beta, and Omega realm of fiction which just aren't there as accessible to those writing contemporary romance, which allowed her to really use her imagination and explore the dynamics of domination and submission with her characters, both in and out of the bedroom. Age gap is often a theme in her books as well and we explored that aspect in our chat too. I narrated a section from her book The Alpha's Seduction. It's a very sexy intense spicy sex scene that explores the characters' domination and submission dynamic. It was such a fun writer's chat!
Connect with Marlowe Roy here: http://marloweroy.com/
Links in this post are affiliates. If purchases are made through the links, the owner of this podcast (me!) might receive an advertising monetary value that supports this podcast. This comes at no added cost to the purchaser. Thank you for your support!
The Alpha's Salvation Book 1 https://amzn.to/41tq3D8
The Alpha's Seduction Book 2 https://amzn.to/3KYIkBd
Instagram as marlowauthor, Twitter at http://twitter.com/AuthorMarlowe
She is also on Facebook.
Thank you Marlowe for coming on the show! I had a great time talking with you!
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Hello, this is Ruin Willow with the Oh, fuck yeah, with Ruin Willow podcast. I have an amazing author interview for you today. Marlo Roy is a Midwestern transplant living in the beautiful Pacific Northwest.
She writes dystopian, omega-verse romances that are as gritty and sexy as they are emotionally satisfying. She writes late at night and on weekends and does not want to go for a hike. She writes some steamy scenes in her books and we talk all about that. She's written the books called The Alpha Salvation, The Alpha Seduction. Marlo Roy is her name.
If you're under 18, baby love, it is time to leave the podcast. Now we do touch on topics of sexuality and women and different age gaps and how people are portrayed in the media. We definitely do talk about some sex stuff. If you're under 18, it is time to leave the podcast.
Now we had an amazing discussion and it was really fun to talk with her. She's an awesome writer and her books are amazing. You need to check them out on Amazon. Down in the podcast show notes will be the links to her books and then you can find them.
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Okay, and now let's get to the stuff, the juicy stuff. I'm going to narrate a portion of her book for you and then we'll have the amazing discussion that we had. So it was so much fun to talk with her. I really connected with her and really had a really fun time. It was just fun. I love talking to other writers and she's a female writer. I'm a female writer.
So it was just so much fun. Okay, let's get into the narration. Ha ha ha. Okay.
This is an excerpt from the Alpha's seduction. It is the first intimate scene between Della and Cal, and as things tend to go between them, it is a spicy battle of wills. Cal, the sharp prick dug into his skin. Angled into the hollow where his pulse hammered, the stab rendered his body inert. A mess of confusion, instinctive fear and disbelief drenched his lust in cold water.
What the fuck? Prying his teeth apart, he detached and eased away. Slender, white-knuckled fingers gripped the blade, tiptracking his every movement. The small folding knife was his, one he'd long buried in the bottom of his knapsack. The thing likely barely held an edge, but he'd give her credit for her resourcefulness. Not that she couldn't stab it into the thin skin of his neck, and given the resolute set of her mouth, he'd wager she wouldn't hesitate to try. Staring down his nose at his flushed and determined omega, the initial jolt of fear withered to an abstract husk. Two minutes ago she'd kissed him, like she'd waited her entire life for the chance, and now she pulled a knife on him? What exactly did she think would happen here? One quick flick of his hand would bat the weapon away, another twist, and he'd have her wrist pinned above her head. This attempt at a physical confrontation was a farce, but he'd let her have it to discover what new game she played.
Don't mark me! Her eyes hardened, and the barest of tremors touched her voice. I don't want to be claimed! A feral grin split his face as he swiped the blanket off her lap, exposing her lower body. She gasped, and the blade hiccupped against his throat, but pressed no farther. Braced above her on one arm, Cal trailed his other hand down her stomach, and into her exposed, fragrant, dripping cleft. Sweet, tender flesh kissed the tips of his fingers, a slippery welcome that had him suppressing a pained groan when he withdrew from its humid embrace. Retracing back up her torso, he touched glossy, slick-damped fingers to her bottom lip. Are you sure about that? With his middle finger tucked inside her mouth to rest against her tongue, he asked. Can't taste your tongue! Can't taste your desire! Can't you feel it? Why fight this? Her lips closed around his first knuckle in an involuntary stuck, and her pupils exploded outwards, the ring of dark blue eaten up by black. Cal grunted at the unexpected suction at the picture of her hot, pillowy flesh around his.
Lips ripped through his mind of all the other combinations and permutations of such a sight. His fingers in her cunt, his cock in her mouth, and her pussy in her ass. Her hand wrapped around his dick, her lips sucking his balls, tonguing his whole.
Are you want me? He crooned, withdrawing and snaking one hand back between her legs while shifting the other to span her collarbones. Fully conscious of the knife still at his jugular, he tightened his hold, circling her neck. She stilled, her body now anchored in two vulnerable places, subdued but fighting her submission. Say it, Della! He nudged his fingers through her sex, homing in on the apex as her hips began to quiver and thrust in time with his slow, steady pace. Tell me you want this. Tell me you've wanted me since I pressed you up against the mess-hole. A slim, delicate, non-knife-holding hand dug into his forearm, and Cal smiled at the small drops of pain, feeling his cockthrob harder at the sight of a fight. Interesting. Had he not known that about himself? Reddish hair and a snarl had thrashing side to side despite his grip, defiance flared in the set of her jaw. I don't.
A sinister chuckle worked its way to the surface. Honesty is a virtue for everyone else, but not you, is that it? Fingers massaging her clit, he asked. Expected better of you. Don't care.
She panted, her jaw tight as she gnashed her teeth against the climax building under his fingertips. What? Eh, you expect? Looking forward, he ignored the blade as it poked into his skin and brushed his nose against hers, breathing in her ragged breaths like the sweetest dessert. His circling rhythm stuttered, trailing off and then back into sync, becoming erratic and deliberately dissatisfying. Della's grip on the knife faltered. Its tip danced over his throat, more of an annoying tickle than a true threat. A pathetic, high-pitched whine squirmed past her stoic stubbornness, the hot fold for Pussy's spaziming and hovering release. Ah! Ah! Ah! Tell me you want to come. She angled her pelvis upward, seeking out the stimulation he denied her, demanding with her body what her mouth refused. Don't claim me.
Della's thumb against her clit. He slid two fingers inside her wet inferno, resting gently in and out, slow and controlled, simultaneously giving and depriving. I ain't talking about that right now. I'm offering to get you off. He smirked. That's what this hungry little old mega-pussy wants, isn't it? Say please make me come, Elfa. And I will, see? Pussy as pie.
The knife jiggled at his throat, small jabs that betrayed her moment to moment wavering. Had she realized she posed no threat to him, but was too distracted to give it up? Or was she hanging onto the threat of control for other reasons, reasons having to do more with herself than him? Don't make me say it! She gritted out the misery-saturated words. All right, Omega. He said placating. Put the knife down, and I won't make you say it. As if remembering, she still held it. Della pushed it firm to his throat. No, bledding! She said through clenched teeth. Raw emotion torched the back of his throat. How could he promise that when he'd thought of little else for the last two days when every muscle in his jaw tingled with anticipation for this primitive act? Frustration mounting, his fingers halted, their teasing thrusts still lodged inside her, but now only a dissatisfying reminder of what she denied him, denied herself, denied them. Because whether she liked it or not, there would be a them.
If not today, then tomorrow, or the day after, this conviction settled his ire somewhat. He'd waited his whole life for this moment, for this woman, for this homecoming of sorts. What was another day in the grand scheme of his life? Yet a powerful resistance reared up and rebelled, his inner, Alpha, roaring. Alphas didn't court. Alphas claimed.
Yeah, he could wait, but why, why did he have to? So many choices had been denied to him, so many dreams he'd abandoned. Why couldn't he take this one, beautiful thing, for his own, here, now? Sweat sheened her brow, and turmoil flitted across Della's face, marring her refined and pristine beauty in a way both tragic and irresistible. Promise me, she demanded, voice hoarse with arousal or emotion or desperation, or all three. Cal stroked along the base of her neck, the riot of her pulse throbbing like an accusation. Alphas weren't only meant to claim their omegas, they were also meant to provide for and care for and protect, and right now she was demanding protection from him. Alphas thought seared his guts like a cattle-brand, and shame flooded his bloodstream. His breaths came short and fast as the opposing needs to reassure her and possess her ward in his chest. You said no lies, she persisted. Promise me, please.
The word please was his undoing. The weight of her— terror strained across the one agonizing syllable and shattered his inertia to pieces. All right! He heard himself say, his speech not planned or even known to him, but dictated by someplace deep inside his alpha brain. Slowly his thumb circled her swollen pearl, gratified by a fresh gush of slick against his wrist and the faint, mulling sound she swallowed.
Here's what's going to happen. First I'm going to make you come so long and so hard you're going to soak this bed with all that beautiful slick. After that I'm going to fuck you. Go in deep and you're going to come again and again and again and when your cream is drenching my cock and running down my thighs I'm going to notch you right in this hot, soaking cunt and you're going to fall asleep stuffed full. He circled faster, smirking as her breath got short and the knife bounced against his skin. Later on when I wake up we're going to do it all over again. You understand all that? Her pelvis ground up hard against his hand, her answer verbal as well as non. Yes.
His chin dipped in a solemn nod, the blade scraping a weak thread against his throat. You do all that without a fight? You come for me like a good little Omega? And I promise I won't mark you till you ask me to. A flash of shock shadowed her sex-drunk gaze, before giving him an eager nod in agreement. Then buoyed his spirit, the hard one compromised feeling like a complete victory. Good. Good Omega. Now. He said utilizing his Alpha Command mode.
One drop of fucking knife. Hello everyone. I'm so excited to talk to this author. She has amazing books and she's making a big splash and I just, it's really exciting for me to talk to other authors. I just have so much fun talking to someone else, especially someone who likes to write like I do.
So everyone please meet Marlowe Roy. Welcome Marlowe. I'm so excited you're here. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me. This is very exciting. It is exciting. Now your books, tell me what your books are about.
Tell us. Not just me. Right. Everyone, everyone. This thing.
The books are romance novels. They are set in a dystopian kind of post apocalyptic setting and they fall in the sub genre of Omega verse. And so that's kind of the broad strokes, what they're about.
Yeah. And yours have like people. They're not like the fantasy monsters and all that, right? They're people. Right. Yes.
I do write people who are non shifters, which is times a dividing line. Shifters or not or aliens or not. And they are people.
My people are kind of mutated people though is sort of the history of the world that we have an apocalyptic event. And then this is like a century down the line. So it's actually not like if I don't know if people are watching The Last of Us, which is like 20 years after, you know, the zombie virus. My books are like 100 years, not involving a zombie virus.
But the same kind of thing. And so there's this dilapidated world. And then there's the world that's kind of survived on top of it. And in the process of that, there were groups of people that were mutated. And, you know, the basic tenet of Omega verse is that you have people of different designations or dynamics is what they end up getting called. So you have Alpha people, Beta people and Omega people. And some other authors throwing a few other things for spice. But those are the main things.
And so in my world, the Alpha people and the Omega people were people that went through the apocalypse. And then that has been a kind of a mutated form of people that made them slightly different and maybe a little bit better adapted to the new world. And then in my mind, the people that are more Beta people are people that are more like us who just sort of didn't mutate, but managed to kind of survive in some way. And so kind of my take on it is a little weird, I think. I don't know.
One of the things I like about the genre is that basically if you have a construct of Alpha, Beta, Omega, you can spin that in lots of different ways. And I actually think that kind of leads to a lot of creativity and it sort of sparks a lot of really interesting imaginative ideas. And one of the things that I really was thinking about was there's this point in human evolution where humans, homo sapiens lived alongside like Neanderthal. Yes.
And I find that I'm like, what was that like? That's wild. I know, right? That's totally wild. And it's not like they didn't interact because they did and there were people that cross mated. And I'm sure the cultures interacted in some ways. And so when I was writing my first book, I was kind of thinking of, you have this Alpha, Omega, Dynamic Society thing, and then you also have Beta people. And so how are these people kind of coexisting now in sort of that same way? So that's a long-winded answer. No, that's a great answer.
And another way to think of this is like levels of dominance. So when you say Alpha, right? So it really is talking about dominant, people are more dominant than others. And there's like different levels of like stature or dominance, right? Right. Yeah. I should have mentioned that too.
I think the way, and a lot of this comes out of these now sort of disproven theories about wolf packs, and there being like an Alpha male in the wolf pack. And it turns out none of that is actually true. That's just how wolves behave in captivity and actually not in the wild. And then the wild wolves are much more cooperative. Because a concept for playing with power dynamics in fantasy novels, it can be kind of interesting. So in general, yes, you have Alpha people who are more dominant or more, you know, in my world sort of genetically gifted, right? Right. Sure. Sure.
And then generally in most Omegavers, like the Omega people are kind of lesser status or lesser prominence or something. But there's some sort of kind of endogenous power dynamic there that often gets exploited for all kinds of reasons. What I think is fascinating is how the difference between like, for instance, the kind of writing I do versus what you do, you know, I have to create a scene and it's in this world. It's like people already know things.
So you're creating an entire world, which to me is so much larger and it's got to be so much more of a challenge unless you're inclined to do that. I'm not saying I could never try it, but I just see there is a difference between what you're writing, where you have to create an entire world versus what I'm writing, which is happening in our current world, our current culture, our society. You know what I mean? I do think that...
Oh, sorry, was there a question? I was just going to say, what do you think about that? Do you see that difference too? Or do you write on... You only write in this genre? Do you write in the current genre or current culture as well? Contemporary. I started out writing contemporary. So I've done that as well. I haven't published any in contemporary, but I have a few finished books in that genre.
It's an interesting question around kind of world building, I guess. And I don't even consider my world like very complex. I'm trying to think of what would be... You know, it's not the Lord of the Rings, obviously. Right. It's not...
Okay. Let's not get carried away. I'm not inventing languages.
Right. But I do think there's an amount of world building that happens in every story, don't you think, a little bit? I do, yes. Even if we have a sexy scene, it's like, well, what's the context that the sexy scene is happening and what is the world that we're sort of joining with? Yes. Where we kind of meet some characters, whomever they are. I think of something like... I'm going to date myself, but if you think about the show, like ER, right? Mm-hmm. That's a contemporary show, but the world is this hospital. Right? Yes. That's the world.
And so when you're joining with that show, and part of the appeal is, well, I want to have this voyeuristic sort of experience in this medical kind of world that adds to... Really adds to the richness. And that's one of the things I really love in writing that tends to come a little bit naturally to me. I don't work at it, but then people seem to respond to it as I do really like thinking about kind of the world building and what the texture of that world is. Yeah.
I just feel like your kind of story, your kind of writing for these books is you have to do a little bit more work because for me, I feel like, yeah, even with ER, people have been to a hospital. So they have this contextual experience coming into the story. So you may not have to bake as much in there into your story as, for instance, you would, because it's in the future. Just being in the future alone, things are going to be a little bit different. Whether you're advanced or less advanced, it's still different than what is today happening in the world.
Right. Right. And I don't know, I probably can't sort of writing craft technically speak super smartly about this. But I think it's also sort of like, what do you, like anything in writing, like what do you point out? Like what do you focus on? And what do you sort of let people fill in the blanks with their own assumptions? And it's sort of like in filmmaking, I guess, like where do you point your camera and what is on the screen? And so you can, like I'm trying to think of something that I haven't really described very well in my books, right? Like kind of, geography is very fuzzy in my books. I don't like geography.
My books sort of vaguely take place in the Pacific Northwest, British Columbia, wasteland, forested wastelands. But you know, like in my second book, there's very prominent hot springs. And a lot of stuff takes place at this sort of hot springs. And my husband said to me, he goes, are you sure there's hot springs in British Columbia? Oh. And I was like, yes, in fact there is, because I did go and look and look it up.
But otherwise, you know, don't ask me exactly where things are taking place because I don't know. And I think too, especially in the future, there doesn't have to be now hot springs or that doesn't mean there wouldn't be in the future. So if you can make anything fit in your world, if it's going to be in the future, you know, who are we to say how hot springs develop? I mean, you know, one's not going to pop up in the, it's not going to pop up somewhere, you know, making an assumption that things are going to stay the same. And we know that's not true. I mean, we know how the earth has changed over time. It does not stay static.
You know, it does not look like it did years ago. And it does not look like it will look in the future. So, you know, continents may change. So, you know, right. Right.
And part of the, part of the, you know, significance of the apocalypse was in my books is that there was, you know, a nuclear event or a few. And then there was a whole cascade of environmental problems too, because I think that is what would happen. And so then you have massive earthquakes, massive, massive fires, massive disease, you know, and then lack of infrastructure and then people dying from all of these things. So there was also like a really kind of massive die off too, which is really grim to think about, but I did start writing it like right around the time of the pandemic. So I think kind of mass death was kind of on my mind. Yeah, sure. And so part of then one of the interesting things is that the population fins and then people are more spread out. Right.
a whole other thing too because now at least I live in a city, a lot of us live in cities, a lot of us don't. We're kind of piled on top of each other even in the nice deep where we have all this damn land, right? We're all kind of piled on top of each other and I was thinking like, okay, well, what would it be like to be back sort of like 1880s, right? Where there's people around but we're not piled on top of each other and maybe you have to ride on a horse for a week to get to a place that sort of developed, you know? Right, right. Like it used to be but it's in the future. Yeah, that's such a fascinating thing to think about of everything we have now just being obliterated and breaking down and how would we, things would be like they were long ago. Long ago. And sort of the main conflict of the,
one of the main characters in the first book is an alpha character. His name is Hunter. His name is Paul Hunter, but over time he ends up going by Hunter, which is a thing that, you know, people, there's not as many people so you don't really need last names. And his backstory is that he actually survived through the apocalypse. And so he lived through it and he was actually a physician, right? Again, pandemic. I was thinking about healthcare workers and survived through it and then, so continues to live and now the mutation that has made him like taller and bigger and has extended his life unnaturally, right? So at the start of the book, he's like 140-ish years old, but a lot of his sort of angst comes from the trauma of living through that and the trauma of his kind of the breakdown of his professional identity, right? Where he lived through this thing when he couldn't really help the people that he wanted to help because there's no sterile saline anymore, right? Like, you know, and then hospitals collapsed and then, you know, he talks at one point about how like people just stopped showing up to work, even the people that were trying to still do stuff. And so everything kind of fell apart and he's feels like this remnant that has no purpose and, you know, family died. And so he's rather alone. And, you know, trigger warning, I guess, for people is that the main thing at the beginning of the book is that he's actually wrestling with committing suicide because he is just like 300% over it. Yeah. And has found himself kind of a leader in the new world and has found himself sort of a group of other guys that he's kind of the leader of. But even that isn't really doing it for him, you know. Now, what's the first book? Which one is the first
one? The name of it? The first one is called the Alpha Salvation. Salvation is the first one. Okay. Because when I was looking you up, I didn't write that down. I'm like, okay, which one's because then there's the Alpha
seduction. That's the second one in the series. And then what about, so then you also have, now is the Alpha's Salvation is the after and Omegaverse? That's the same book, right? Correct. That's the subtype. Right. And then you have an anthology
where you have a story to ruled by the Alpha. Correct. That's a, that's an Omegaverse anthology that I got in. So that's with other authors as well, right? Correct. Yes.
Yeah. I think there were anthologies work about a dozen and that one was organized by my publisher actually. So, oh, nice. That's cool. That was kind of exciting.
So what, so you talked about how this all kind of you had these thoughts around the time of the pandemic starting. Is that really what drove you to write this in or or was there something else that was like in your brain were like, I want to write this, I want to write about this. How did that birth? Right. Yeah. It's, well, because, you
know, I have a bunch of writing friends and my one writing friend and I, we write at night at, in our houses and then we Google Hangouts kind of text each other. And I remember I just texting her over Google Hangouts. I was like, I am writing the most insane thing right now, just so you know. That's awesome. Because we, we had started writing together and I was
still writing contemporary. And so was she contemporary romance. And so, and what happened was, is that I had, like I said, a couple of contemporary manuscripts and I was actually trying to get them traditionally published. And I was like looking for an agent that I was doing that whole very demoralizing process. It turned out. And, you know, it's just really, it was really difficult.
And it's, it's, there's a lot of feelings involved in that. And you want to think about it as like, you know, oh, this is a business. And I'm just going to be cool about this. And
I understand. But it is really hard to just have the rejections and rejections and rejections. Yeah. Oh, absolutely. It is. Yes. Obviously, that's not a
unique experience. But so that, that
was happening in my life. And then I started, I heard about Omegaverse somewhere. And I'm just sort of a curious person. And I was like, okay, what, what is this? And
it may have been, I may have read an article about the lawsuit. And I was like, I need to go. Now I'm, now I'm piqued, right? Now I'm, right. So then I just started reading as much as I could. And I was like, this is bananas. But in an
amazing way. And I liked that it was darker. And I liked that you had these power things. And that you get this, like, I'm going to say it again, just repeat myself, power dynamic without trying to be sort of a responsible portrayer of kink power dynamic. Because I think that's a whole other thing, right? Where if you're writing kind of modern kink, and then you have to be sort of careful about what you're portraying and doing it in a respectful way to that community, I think. And in a not terrible way for your readers too, or you have to be really clear that the way I'm writing this kink relationship is really not the way stuff is supposed to happen in the future. And you have to kind of do a lot of gymnastics, which is all good and responsible stuff to do. But to me, it seemed like, you know, we're the megaverse, we're still a little bit in our dubious, consent sort of world. And you can kind of sidestep that. And it's, I've heard it described by another author as
sort of the old fashioned fanfic sex pollen thing, right? Where it's like, we're all infected with horniness. And the reason we're infected with horniness and omega versus because of our dynamics and omegas often is a trope and these things go into heat, right? Which is again, banana pants. And so I was like, what is this nuts? And so I just really caught my imagination. And so I was doing this contemporary thing. And I was sort of disgusted. And I thought to myself, I'm going to write something just crazy. And for myself. And I had this idea in a lot of the
common sort of conflict in omega versus you have omegas who are lower status or lower something. And they hate, right? Because nobody wants that. Right? Nobody wants to be the disadvantaged person, right? Yeah. I mean, some people in our society fight really hard to portray themselves as disadvantaged people. But you know, that's a whole other thing, you know, but there are actual disadvantaged people anyway, whatever. So that's a common thing. And so that's the theme.
But I was thinking to myself like, okay, well, we have a lot of omegas who hate being omegas. And that's kind of their journey. But what if you have an alpha who hates being
an alpha? What is that? And so that's where my first character, Hunter came from is that he's this guy who lived through his apocalypse. He became an alpha and he hates it. He's like, I didn't want and here I am. And so that was kind of how that started. And
then the first book really, you know, it really kind of flowed just, it just like kind of exploded on the paper in a really wild way. And again, like I'm texting my writing buddy and I was like, I'm writing a fight scene tonight. And you know, which is like, like someone's killing someone in a creek bed, right? Which isn't something that happens in contemporary romance. And she's like, have fun, have fun girl. And so anyway, that's, now I forgot what your question
was. But that's kind of where that story came from. Because I started reading a lot of it. That's the answer. I started reading a lot of Omegaverse. And then I
thought I want to try and do this too and see what happens. And then it turns out that it's been kind of successful for me. So I can't complain too much. Yes. That's totally awesome. And I interviewed another author once
who does Omegaverse. And she also said the same thing. It's kind of like you have this acceptable liberation, this,
this freedom set you don't have in people who write in contemporary, because you don't have to follow all these societal things or follow the kink world rules, you get to do whatever the fuck you want. If you want them to be someone who is you just have it's kind of rule lists. It's kind of like you don't you have so much more liberty to do and go where you want. And people won't be like, Oh, my gosh, you said that that's taboo. You know what I mean? Like you can write in the taboo and that's acceptable and is what people actually want. So it's very interesting the different genres. And to me,
that's what what really emerges with the Omegaverse and what you're saying. Right. Very, you know, for me, it's very like I'm going to just like my id just play all over this. Sure. And, you know, and I think that as you know,
Omegaverse, I would say in the last year, year and a half has kind of exploded. And now it's everywhere. And you see a lot. And the genre has shifted a little bit to broaden. And now there are people doing really well, writing sweet Omegaverse, which is Omegaverse, oftentimes in a contemporary setting in a less violent world with these dynamics. So that is a cool thing is that it is really flexible. But I did I did come, I did come at
it from the darker side. And that I think my books, I would position it kind of dark gray, right? Okay, not all the way black, non consent sort of stuff, but kind of, again, the sex pollen, dubious. I'm into this, but I don't want to be right. And so that's that's kind of where my things are.
And that is one of the things that I liked about Omegaverse. When I first started reading is you could you could go to it and you could find some some dark and taboo stuff that was really exciting. I don't write on the sweeter side now. And I'm, you know, happy for people that are doing really well in that sphere. But to me, it takes a little bit of the
magic out of it. Yeah, sure. Like, okay, well, just, you know, go read the love hypothesis, I guess, I don't know. Whatever. Understand where you're coming from on that one. Yeah, I know, I'm not making friends, but for me, it's kind of like, you know, started out writing romance. And now I write erotica. So then when I read a romance, I'm like waiting for the sex, I'm waiting for the spice. And if it's not there, I'm kind of like, this kind of sucks. You know what I mean? Like, once you find that spice that you like, or that zing, which for you is Omegaverse, it makes the other ones kind of pale. Not that I won't ever write them. And I do
have books out there. I have books that I've written that I'm still going to pitch that are more sweeter too. But you know, I feel like for me, because like,
for instance, I was just reading this book with someone I was on their podcast as we were reviewing a book. In the first two chapters, we're like, boring and sexless. And I thought, if I wasn't reading this book or this podcast, I would have quit reading this book. It's a fantastic book. But the sex really got going after the first two chapters. And it really hit me like, how my tastes have changed after writing erotica. You know what I mean? Like what you're kind of
saying. You know, and everybody, it's a good point that everybody has sort of their, what's the word? Their spice that they want. They want that little charge. You're looking for that particular thing. And I think one of the really funny things about
being on social media, which I kind of never was until I became an author and seeing kind of the reader stuff is people sort of, there's this joke about unlocking kinks, right? And so I think it's really funny how people, now everybody, is really into like good girl or everybody discovered that calling daddy could be a real some of daddy is really sexy things in some context. But I hear you, I started writing erotica actually in college and then I kind of moved more towards romance. But my tolerance these days, like yours, there's just so many great books and there's just not a lot of reason to keep reading a book that doesn't hold your interest. So I do not think right kind of ruthlessly. And to me, I don't know if I need sex
in the first couple of chapters, but I definitely need to feel the zing of that connection. Yeah, I was really trying to slog through this book a while ago, and we were on chapter five or six, and the characters have not met yet, and it was a romance. And I was, I was like, this isn't going to work for me. I kept trying because I was like, just want to see these people together and I want to see what that looks like. And I want to see if those two are interesting to me, and we just weren't getting there. And so I will I will DNF out of a book for that reason. So for me, I don't necessarily need the sex, but
I need to see the spark. And yeah, I get that. And that's there needs. So I've gotten very impatient in my book. So I
think in the Alpha Salvation, I think they think it's more traditional where you have the him chapter, then you have the her chapter, and then you have the me chapter. So it's by chapter three, but there's a very intense connection in chapter three, it's not it's not subtle and brewing. It's like they need and there's this kind of immediate sort of like world shift. And then in the Alpha seduction, I got even more
impatient and they meet in the first chapter. And so I was I was like, I don't I don't I don't feel like teasing this out right now. And but they meet and and then there's the mystery of who is this person and learning about them and wondering why they're fascinating to me. And which which is like, which is the thing I think I really love about romance in general, because that's like real life, you know, where you meet someone and you might have a spark with them. But it's like, who are they? And now I want to know everything about them. And right, takes you back to feeling like you're, you know, 15 or something. And, you know, I who are they friends with? And,
you know, how come I never noticed this person at school before or in college in my classes before or my job? How come I never noticed this person that works in another part of the company, right? Like, right, just these sort of natural things where you're like, I didn't know this person existed. And now I do. And that's something that I really need to know a lot more about. Right. It's like this obsession, you know, like all of a
sudden, that's sort of my recent catchphrase is I need to know a lot more about this. And so like, the one who will tell me is like, I need to know a lot more about this, like a lot more. I'll tell you a funny story. My sister-in-law, my sister-in-law, we're on a family group chat and my in-laws, my husband's parents, we're visiting them. And my sister-in-law said that yesterday, my mother-in-law was hunting
around the house for some hand lotion and found lube instead. And mistook it, and mistook it for hand lotion. I guess then had this like, you know, sticky kind of mess. This lotion sucks. This lotion is not doing the trick. And my sister-in-law was really funny. And she said, I'm
a stalling child locks, which is hilarious because they have small children. But the idea of locks for my mother-in-law is the funny thing. But she told me about the lube and mistook it. And I said, I need to know a lot more about this. I need to know a lot more about this. Absolutely. That's great. I think that's hilarious. And really, that's
what you want your reader to be
like when they're reading the beginning of your story or your book. You want them to be having that feeling and saying that because that's what's going to keep them reading, right? Right. And it's easier said than done, right? That sort of creating that endogenous peak of interest is that's a whole art. It is. It is. And to have it be natural, fit into your story,
be interesting and not like stupid or cheesy or unrealistic. Yeah, there's so many different things that you have to consider. And so not like stereotyped or kind of like, you know, cliched, cliched is hard to get away from cliches. Exactly. Yes, it really is. So how much heat, I haven't read your books, I
want to, but how much heat do you put in your books? Like, as there you do like flat out sex scenes or do you dance around it? What level of heat do you tend to write on in these particular books? My books are high heat, I would say. And which, you know, again, people have different rating scales. Right. But to me, high heat means you have more than three sex scenes in a novel, right? You're looking at four to five. And they're not closed doors. And, you know, it is more explicit, I would say. Yep. I would say they are high heat. I do like writing sex scenes. I often conceive of
a book first as the sex scene first is like, what's the kind of sex people would have? Yes, yes. Oh, interesting. Yeah. And so I often picture that first. And then, you know, as I'm sort of building ideas out, I think about that. And but yeah, they are they are high ish heat. I would I would say short answer. And realizing that people have different ratings. So I'm sure
someone out there has written this is not spicy enough for me. I'm sure that has been. But I try and do that. And I try and
add the other trick when you're writing a full novel and there's multiple scenes is how do you make each scene interesting? Right. And how are we not just doing missionary in a bed? Because that's not you can do that a few times. But if every scene you read in a book is missionary in a bed, and then, you know, in a romance, too, you you want the sex to move the plot forward as well so that it's right that something happens there, some emotional shift, which I find to be the easier part because sex is emotional on a lot of cases. And it's it's hard to be open physically and not have emotions, you know, of some variety surface. Yes, for sure. Not necessarily love emotions, but emotions, right.
And so yes. And as a writer, you're just always kind of, you
know, mining, mining for what's the emotional content, what's the salient emotional thing here, what's the right, you know, what's the thing that really makes this compelling. And so that's, that's kind of what what what I'm what I'm trying, what I'm trying to do. But I do like writing the sex scenes, I find it to be really sometimes the easiest scenes to write. Oh, sure. I can appreciate that. So what is your usual plan? Are you more of
a pancer? Or do you do outlines? Do you plan everything before you do it? And my other question is, do you write chronologically? Or do you write are you one of those writers that write scenes, and then you weave the story together? Like, you know, there's different ways to write, obviously. I, I, disaster, maybe, I don't know. I think in my heart, I'm a pancer. But as I've kind of gotten into stuff more here
and try to get a little faster at writing and kind of have the stories come together a little bit faster, there is value in having a sense of where you're going and kind of so I'm not a plotter. I don't have 10,000 post it notes or index cards. But I do, I do work with a developmental editor, and she is really helpful. And I will do like what she calls story consultations. So I'll meet with her and I'll say, here's the characters I'm thinking about. Here's the conflict I'm thinking about. Here's the theme I'm kind of thinking about. Here's what I want to kind of play with. And then we talk and she's amazing. She's read a
bazillion books and she knows all the things that story needs to get. And to me, to me, that's like, it's like a coach, right? Yeah, yeah, for sure. You know, and she's like, okay, here's the play in, you know, we're in the huddle. And she's like, here's the play, you're going to go out and you're going to run this way. And you'll have a book. You're welcome for listeners for my football analogy. So I've been working with Dawn. And then she sends
me, she's so great, she actually sends me notes about what we talked about. It's like, no, nice pinch point. And here's the midway point. And so that is then kind of my map that I've been doing. And I've done that for the last two books. So for seduction, and then the one that I'm trying to wrap up now, resurrection, I've done that. And, you know, sometimes the thing we talk about doesn't quite flesh out. It's like just not coming together for me. And I'll have to try and wiggle that around. But
there, if you do have a little bit of a plan, I will say to the, you know, great, great turmoil of panzers everywhere, it does make things go a little bit faster. It does, it does. And I think too, you know, it helps you if you have at least a little bit, it helps you not have to go back and make other changes. Like if all of a sudden, it's something doesn't flow, you're going back and having to rewrite or edit something. So I think it makes a difference in that way
too. Right. And a chance for your second part, I do write chronologically. So I go all the way through. And then one good piece of advice that I've had or I've adopted is that in the middle, if you're in the middle of writing something and you think, I need to, I'm going to make this significant change, but I'll need to adjust what came before, just keep going. Right. Just keep going and write the rest of the book
with that change, having taken place, finish it. And then in your edits, go back and make the first part, what came before fit it. Because if you go back, that's a trap. Yeah, I can appreciate that statement. Yeah. It's a trap to go back. And so just keep
moving forward. The first draft, the only purpose of the first draft is to exist. And I really try and remind myself of that. Its only function is that it needs to exist. And
anything can be fixed after that. But you can't fix some, you know, you can't fix a blank page is the famous. Exactly. I was just going to say that. Can't edit a blank page. That's been pretty helpful. So
I did change something kind of midstream and resurrection. And I think I've gone back and fixed it now. But that's helpful just to keep going. Just keep going. Now, is this a trilogy then, the one you're working on resurrection? So this is a trilogy, right? These three books? Or is it totally separate? It's an interconnected series. Okay, sure. Sure. Okay. So we have a different couple
in each one. And okay, yeah, the worlds are, they're in the same, I would say, community. And the resurrection that I'm writing now is a redemption
story for a character who was kind of not kind of who was a villain in the first book. So I don't think he was necessarily a villain, but he did a villainous thing. And he was, he kind of came out of the woodwork at the end of the book. And, you know, it may or may not have worked
as well as I wanted it to. I may have done things differently in a different life. But he came, he entered the story at the end of the book and sort of did a villainous thing. And now it's two books later. And I feel like it's time, it's time for us to figure out what his deal is. Sure. Now, do people need to read them in order
or would it work for them to read them out of order? I think it works out of order. I do try and write them as standalone so that you can kind of drop in. I do think there is probably more richness if you read them in order. And I have been trying and, you know, I don't
know, I feel like this is an interesting discussion. How similar do you make the books and how different do you make them? Because, right, people, you know, people do like what they like, right? And you can look at some really, really pop. series and be like, okay, well, we're just, we're serving up chocolate ice cream in book one, we're serving up chocolate ice cream in book two, and we're serving up chocolate ice cream in book three. And people are making gangbusters of money, right? And so, right, I struggle with that, like, how much, how much do the books need to be the same? Yeah, to kind of hit that mark that people want? Or how much do they need to be different so that you're not doing the same thing over and over? So I don't know the answer to that. But I do think it's an interesting thing that happens in different authors, careers and different series. And so my books, I would say from the first book to the second book, they are different. I probably err on the side of making them a little different. And one of the concerns I had was the hero
in the second book, I very deliberately sought out to make him a quite different hero than Hunter. And I was like, I don't want to write the same character again. Yeah, I want a totally different person. And the hero in the second book is a quite different heroine. And she's actually someone who has survived through the apocalypse herself. And so now we have one of the real other
things I didn't mention about my books that I should is that all of my characters so far are older people. Oh, I was I have that on my notes to ask you about. Yes, I'm so glad you're addressing this. So I, I am an older woman. I'm a full
full grown ass woman. And I feel I feel underrepresented books. Yes, as a as an older woman. And I that was one of the things that I
noticed in a lot of Omegaverse when I was reading it is that it does tend to be excuse young. And again, I think kind of goes to that power dynamic. And being young and innocent and naive and powerless and lesser status. And I think sort of naturally fits in there for there to be kind of these age gaps, because that's another that's another power dynamic. Absolutely. But for me, I just I I struggle, I was
telling a friend this yesterday, I struggle a little bit with suspension of reality around characters that are too young. Because like, have you met a 19 year old recently? They're children. Like, and I'm not trying to be a jerk about it. But they're not fully formed yet. And, you know, you
see a gaggle of 19 year olds, if you're on a college campus, for example, and you're like, Okay, well, that person's not making a mating for life decision. You know, because I also feel like a lot of authors are older, actually. And they write characters they're younger, because they think, you know, that's maybe what the market wants. So that's kind of true. I'm just gonna say that.
Yeah. But they write, they actually write the characters to be
more mature than people those ages actually would be. I think a lot of times, they're written as late 20s, some things or 30 something in their sensibilities and the way they talk and the way they think. And for me, that just kind of gets under my skin. It's just, it's a personal thing for me, that I have a hard time with a 19 year old who sounds like a 30 year old. Yes. And that's just me. That's just me. It bothers
me. So my characters are not like that. And Okay. Now
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CEO of male hanger on this podcast. Search for that. You can get all the info right from there. Check it out. And now back to the interview. Let's go. So in my second book, The Heroine Della, has lived
through apocalypse. She's now like 150, right? Because she was like 40ish, 50ish. And I really wanted to write about a woman who in our world was someone of stature and then went through this apocalypse. So she was someone who was actually in a position of power. She was a senator, right? Okay. Yes. Okay. State senator, but had ambitions to be a, you know,
United States senator. And I was thinking, you know, sort of a Hillary Clinton-esque type person, right? Sure. Not exactly that. But, but I felt like that was a really compelling
thing to think about. Okay, well, what if you're someone who has a lot of power, and you had influence, and you were part of the structure of the world, right? You were part of government, you're a part of infrastructure, and then everything literally falls apart. And so much like Hunter, who was like, I'm a doctor, my profession fell apart. Della is like, I'm a politician, I believe in civics, I believe in government, and all of that falls apart. And so what would that do to a person? Right? Yes. So she has a very rich inner life, I would
say. And she also lost a lot. She lost, you know, her identity, her family, she was married, she had a husband, she lost her husband. And she was like pregnant at the time of the apocalypse and then lost the baby. And so, you know, she's had, she's had a rough run of things, and survived in the way that she could. But I have a real soft spot for Della, but she's an older woman. And so physiologically, like if you were to look at her in the book, she looks late 50s, early 60s. Okay, sure. And her love interest is significantly younger. So, okay, chronologically
in the book, he's like 50 ish. Okay, got it. I think that's fantastic. And what you're saying too, I think reflects the ageism in our culture. And so people always think younger is better. So I'm going to take this young body, and I'm going to put it a brain of a 30 or 40 year old in that body. And that's my character. And yeah, see, that's like not
realistic. You know what I mean? I know exactly what you're saying. And I think it's great that you've created this because
writing young people with older mentalities and sensibilities is really kind of ridiculous. If you think about it, I mean, not saying that they can't mature quickly after what they've gone through. But still, yes, there is such a difference in mentalities and sensibilities and just maturity levels. And yeah, you know, it people like, you know, time
in the saddle changes you. Right? It just does. And, and, you know, and I'm not criticizing authors for those choices, I totally get it. And I totally get why readers prefer that. And I totally get it. And I, but I do think sometimes people do that because it's the default. And it's not, it's not actually a choice. It's just this is the way it's done is all
my heroines are 20, right? So I wanted to do something a little different. Because I also think, you know, you have a character like Della, who's lived through all this stuff, and had all these wounds. And that's a very rich character, right? Someone is someone who's lived a life, right? That's that's a life beyond Oh, my dad was a jerk, you know, right? 100%. Which is a stock character kind of thing, right? But that's to me, that's, that's just not it's not what I'm what I'm trying to do. And I do agree with you about the ageism and
this idea that older people aren't sexy, older bodies aren't right, older bodies don't have sex, which is just not true. And now I especially have a cranky streak about a lot of the kind of age gap, older, silver foxes that are popping up now in more books, which I do love, right? I think, you know, older men are quite handsome. But they're always paired with these really young chickens, these little, right? And so I'm aware of the older women, like why, why can't, you know, 55 year old, you know, hot daddy be with a 40 year old woman? Right? Exactly. Exactly. That's I mean, that's what's happening in the world, right? Where all the 55 year old men are putting I want a 40 year old woman on their right. What's happening in the world. Also, they could also be with 55 year old woman,
who's their own age, they could do right. Yep. So, but if I don't know, I just feel like we need we need a bit of a renaissance for older women in romance. Oh, yeah. And I feel like like you're saying that since it's
been a default for so long, there's so much of that there. And there's less of this other stuff you're talking about, you know what I mean? So there's a there's a hole in romance and even erotica. So like, and I do that too, I write with characters who I do both, but you know, I write characters in their 40s or 50s too. And not that I don't do others. And I have I have an age gap series where
the woman is in her 40s, and she's dating, she's with a man in his 20s. So I feel like that that is something that needs to be explored more put out there more because people people want that. You know what I mean? Like, especially people in that age group, I mean, they don't want to keep reading about this 19 year old getting fucked by a 60 year old or whatever. They want to hear some people do. But you know, I get squished out. That's me. I get squished out at some point. But there's there's
there's so there's a lacking, like you said, of older women in erotica and romance. And I think that's very, very true. There's a hole. There's there's many holes. I do think in one of the things that I really enjoyed in terms of like reviews and reader feedback is I've had comments from readers that are like, I've never read a book with a woman in it who is sort of in my stage of life. Right, exactly. An amazing experience to have. And I don't I don't actually know how it plays
with younger readers. I think younger readers just a lot of them can hang and it doesn't, you know, a good character is a good character, no matter what. Yes, age they are. And I think, you know, like you only really tell
half the story in the book and the reader does tells the other half in their head. Yeah, sure. And so people kind of, you know, fill stuff, fill stuff in. But that kind of when I get comments like that from readers about this is really something different. And really me that's, you know, that touches my heart a little bit where I'm like, okay, good, that's good. Because, you know, it's, especially when you look at sort of the, you know, the sexual life of women and how, yes, it does tend to physiologically get better over time. And that that's a whole thing. Talk about sex problem for sure. Right. Like, you guys totally. Anyway, so all being said, I'm going to just announce
a enormous hypocrite because the next heroine in my next book is 26. Okay. But I will say I did have a thoughtful reason for doing that. And that is because the hero character is sort of
developmentally stunted. And so through a lot of ways, he's also kind of emotionally 26. Sure. And so I feel like kind of they, he's not
like a mentoring type domineering character. And so I do feel that those two are actually kind of emotionally on the same. level, even though he is older than her. But through his life experiences and kind of what has happened to him, he's kind of stunted in his growth. And so I had to make it make sense for
me, but yeah, that's where we're going. Yeah, and I don't think you need to box yourself in. But I do think it's important to get more women and female characters out there that are that way that are stronger, they're strong, they're older, they, you know, gained all this experience, their sexuality maybe blossoming, you know, there's just so many different things you can do. And I think it's really important that we have more books out there for the fan, like you said, that was saying, hey, this is I identify with this more. And the other thing I want to say is the younger character or the younger people reading the books also often think experience and all of that that comes with age is also very sexy. So I'd appeal to them in that way, because, you know, there's the whole thing of, you know, milk and gilf and all this stuff where people, you know, and the silver boxes, you know, it's sex experience is sexy, confidence is sexy. And this tends to a lot of times happen with
people more in midlife than when they're in their 20s or 30s. You know what I mean? So it's a great thing to be creating these pieces, even if you don't do it every single time. I wouldn't feel bad about that if I were you, but right, it is, right. And yeah, those things that you get that you get with with age. And yeah, my husband took one of our kids out
to breakfast the other day, they went to like Denny's or something, I don't even know. And the waitress was like flirting with him. And he came home and he was like beside himself. He shouldn't be not bragging, but my husband is very handsome. And he has gray hair, we both have gray hair now. And yeah, the major, I don't know, really, she's kind
of hanging. He's also kind of like clueless. So it's adorable. Like, I don't know, she's like hanging around the table a lot and like, just really asking a lot of questions. And I'm like, flirting with dummy. And he's like, why? And I'm like, okay, well, you're good looking. And you're kind of, you know, you have silver hair. And you also have a kid with you. So you're
like a hot dad's. I'm like, you got a lot of things going, babe. You got a lot going here. I don't know. I love it. It's so true. I agree. Like, I
think just, you know, there's a lot of
talk about diversity in books. And I think age diversity is one that doesn't come up a lot. And it should, along with other kinds of diversity. But I do think the ageism, and then the sexism that comes in there too, that older men are thought to be sexy and older women are thought to be dusty relics. Exactly. So let's, let's not do, let's not do that. And I did make a point of it in the
second book where Della is so much older than her love interest, that sort of his, his attraction to her did not waver. Right. And at one point, she's like, I don't understand this. Like, I have boobs that say, and I'm not right. Like, I mean, she was kind of exasperated because she was sort of like, why aren't you leaving me alone? Right. Right. Okay. And she's like, I don't, what is this? You know,
and he's just like, this is what I want. I don't, what is, what is the quest? He's like perplexed. He's like, I don't understand what you're quick. I don't understand the question. You're confusion. Yeah. Like my
husband, like why is someone flirting with me?
And I'm like, what's the, right? Yep. So that was, that was like an important moment, I think for her character too, for just to be like, Oh, okay, there's not some ulterior motive here. It's just, please accept that I'm legitimately attracted to you. Right. Right. But I think that comes from a culture
too. She's questioning, why don't you want to go be with a, you know, a much younger woman that has a more taught body or maybe more energy, you know, yeah. So that is, that is a great storyline instead of
characters to put out into the world. I think that's so needed. It really is. It's, it's fun. It's fun. And I, you know, I like doing sort of my own thing. So I'm just doing my own thing. Absolutely. So, so do you work on one book at a time? Are you one of those writers that has like more than one project going on one more than one work in progress? Oh, no, I just suffer through one at a time. One at a time. Yeah. The other thing I wanted to ask you is
like, some writers like to write something and then they like to like, let it sit for a month or a week and then go back to it. Do you have any sort of spacing that you like to do when in your process? I do. I'm a rather slow writer. So it takes me a while to hammer out words. Like sometimes I'll write like if I'm lucky and I have a chunk of time on a day, let's say like three hours or something. And I really try and get some stuff done. I'll, I'll work pretty hard and then write like 1500 words. Oh, okay. Sure. I'm very slow. I don't, and I don't even know
where the time goes. I just, I, I'm just very slow, I think in the way I craft sentences. And I'm just, so, and I'm thinking a lot. So things go slowly for me. And so trying to get, by the time I get a draft finished, so I just finished a draft of resurrection and I had to go back and I wrote the first part of that book in October. Okay. Right. I'm very slow. I started in October, I
took November mostly off because my second book was coming out and I really was kind of focusing on promo stuff for that book. So I didn't do much writing in November and then kind of the holidays happened. And so yeah, end of the year, things got slowed. But starting in, you know, January and February, I really hammered out most of it. So going back there is sort of a leg because it just takes me so long to get through a book. But I have taken a writing class and I've heard that advice, like it's good to get your draft done, let it sit if you can for a couple weeks and then then go look at it. But it is funny because I'm so slow. I go
back and I went back to read the first part of this and I literally have no memory of writing those words. Right. It's like I'm reading something someone else wrote. It's really
kind of spooky. As I get closer to the end and it's more present, I'm like, oh yeah, this drove me nuts. But I do, I am kind of slow. I wish
I were faster, but I'm not. I'm practicing acceptance around that. But I'm not the kind of writer who can put out four books a year. It's just, you know, it's not my full-time job. It's not how I support my family. And so the pressures are different, I think, depending on
what your situation is. I think that's very true. And yet you do what you can do. And but yeah, I mean, kind of you're doing that
sort of anyways, because if you're taking that long to write the book and then you go back and revise it and stuff, you've had that space of time, you know, where you can look at it differently than maybe if you wrote it one day and edit it the next day. You know what I mean? Like you've got that space going on where you're coming back at it fresh and you haven't looked at it for a while. So it does give you different perspective, I think. Right. Right. And you know, you're the more time you
spend with anyone, your understanding of them deepens, right? And that's with your characters too. And so you understand them. I do better as I go through the book. And so so. But that being said, I'm thinking about my book all
the damn time, even if I'm right. You know, the other night I was driving on the highway and I was thinking about something I needed to work out and I completely missed my exit, just like, oh, yeah, I was just off. I was off in the after end. I was not paying attention. So I am thinking about it a lot, even even
when I'm not actively working on it, probably more than I should be. But oftentimes when I'm driving, honestly, yeah, I often get ideas when I'm in the shower. And I think it's because I'm like occupied doing something mundane. So my brain can move around, then I get these ideas, or I sometimes wake up and I have all these ideas in my head. And it's like my brain was working while I was sleeping, you know, like, that's always kind of like, and then I'm like, okay, I need to write all this shit down because you'll never remember. You think you're so great idea, I will for sure remember. And then, but there is this, there is this phenomenon,
I think it's called active rest. And you hear this from people like, you know, science people and other stuff where it's like, okay, well, I was working on really hard on this problem and I was trying to figure it out. And it wasn't coming to me. And then I decided I just needed to go wash the dishes or I just needed to go walk the dog. And then I'm doing something else that another mode for my brain to be in, where I'm not asleep, right? But my brain is resting on that particular problem. And then you'll have the flash will happen, right? Like, yeah, yeah, you know, you can read accounts of like mathematicians and stuff. And they're like, Oh, well, you know, came to me when I was washing your dishes or it came to me when I was taking a walker on the playground or at the grocery store. And so our brains do crazy things. And that that experience of active rest, where you're not thinking about the book or you're not thinking about the problem. And then all of a sudden, your brain unbeknownst to you has solved the problem. Yeah, yeah, it's amazing. That's great. When that happens, it
is, it's fantastic. It also makes me think of like, when you're trying to think of something like a word or a name, and you just can't frickin think of it. And so then you just kind of go about whatever you're doing, then pop all of a sudden at word or name is there. It's kind of the same thing, I think. Yeah. So interesting that we don't understand our brains are working,
you know, when we're doing something else. It's quite fascinating. Amazing. The unconscious is a powerful thing, it turns out. It
is. You know, we're aware of and just what we're not aware of. It's just, it's so, it's just so vast. So I haven't even asked you this question, which I
always asked authors. When did you start writing? Were you one of those people that wrote as a child? I know you talked about writing in a college, I think, right? Did you write as under 18 as well? I did. It's funny. I just was cleaning some junk out of my basement. And I found the first book I ever wrote, which was basically a YA novel that I hand wrote. Oh, wow. Like a 13 year old. Oh, fantastic. And a series of five spiral bound notebooks,
like, it's adorable. It's adorable. So I did just find that. And it was, you
know, it was very much in the vein of, you know, YA kind of fantasy, advanced fiction. I really loved Tamara Pierce when I was that age. And she's just a phenomenal writer, phenomenal person. And I very clearly in writing this book was like trying to write a Tamara Pierce book with like a strong. That's awesome. Fantasy world. So anyway, but now I have these notebooks, I'm like,
okay, well, do I throw them away? What do I do with these things? No, don't. I think at some point, once the, no, I think you're, I think your project in the future at some point is to rework them as an adult and make them into books. I mean, why not? You have this pure young mind that created these things. I think that would be a fantastic project someday for you. I would not throw those away. Those might be a little gold nuggets of gold nuggets. It's so sweet. I read it and I'm like, oh,
summer child. Like a literal child, like I was a literal child. It was amazing. And it's all in first person, which is wild to
me because I don't write in first person now. And I started writing when I was a kid to answer your question. And then you have gone in and out of it throughout my life. So I wrote, you know, some, I did a lot
of Veronica reading when I was new adult college age. And so then, okay, you know, generally, I just, I get kind of inspired and I think, okay, well, I want to tell my own stories. And then I kind of, you know, I had some schooling that I was doing for a while. And so I didn't have a lot of bandwidth for writing stuff. And so I kind of come back to it over
the years here and there. And I've always really liked stories and storytelling and reading. And, you know, I also think about, you know, what was the first romance I ever read? I think this is a really interesting question for people. And I, I was this series, I'm going to date myself, but that's fine. There was a series of kind of young adult romance.
novels called Sunfire. It was put out by this publishing line called Sunfire. And I don't know what the bigger publishing house was, but they were romance novels for preteens. Yeah. Yeah. And I ordered some of them from the
Scholastic Book Fair, I believe. And I remember reading a couple of these books and just having such like a reaction to it, like, oh, this is amazing. Right? Yes. And the one book there, it was like a love
triangle, right? And it was Pioneer Girl. And there was, you know, the nice farmer boy. And then there was like the Roguesh Pony Express Rider, right? I've tried to find this book on eBay just to have a copy. They're hard to find these Sunfire books. They are hard to find. They are like collector's items. I wish I had kept them, but I did not. So I love those books. The other thing is that
my mom was not a romance reader. Okay. And so a lot of writers or romance readers will
talk about, okay, well, I stole my mom's Harlequin's or I stole my granny's, whatever, or my auntie would just give me things when she was done with them. And, you know, my mom had every Nora Roberts known to man, right? Like, that was not the house I grew up in. And that was not that. And then I think as I went on you know, you sort of get indoctrinated in the, well, smart people don't read romance. That's not a smart person. Right. Yeah, there's that stigma. That's not a thing that you do. You read, you read Ulysses. Right. But, you know, and so there, there, I definitely got
the download, the cultural download of shame and, yeah, snobbishness with regard to stories about love. And so that I actually did not read any romance for a very long time, actually. And then eventually found my way back to it, I think. And I was like, Oh, shit, I loved this. Right. This is amazing. Yes. Yes. This is amazing. Like,
switch got flipped in my head.
And I was like, Oh my God, this is, this is what I should have been reading like my whole life. Like, what have I been doing? So that point, I almost read almost only romance now I do. I am a pretty slutty reader. I read across all genres. So I read in sci fi, I read in contemporary, I read in historical. I read most stuff. You know, I'm trying to think if there's anything that I really don't read, you know, vampires don't do it for me. I'm too old for Twilight that did not happen for me. And even, even 50 Shades of Grey sort of passed me by because I feel like I'd already read a lot of erotica at that point in my life. And I was like, What is this? This isn't even that interesting. But vampires don't do it for me. But most anything else, I will, I will try anything twice. Great. But I think it's really funny. I kind of feel like I wasted a lot of years sort of not reading a bunch of stuff that I could have read because of shame and this kind of the way in which you know, culturally stories about love are looked down upon, which is just so fucked up. Right. It is. It is. It's like it's almost like
people think it's like frivolous or something or unimportant when it's really the most important thing. Right. And it's, yeah, it's, it's just wild to me. And
you see this play out just everywhere. All the time. So it's a bummer. And, but whatever, we can do
what we want, no matter what. That's right. And the more we put out there, there's so much,
right? There's so much. There's, there's, you know, there's, there's a romance for everyone. There's so much out there and there's so much to choose from. And it's, it's awesome. It's awesome. It really is. And
I feel like the more out there, the better,
the more erotica, the more romance, the more different things that are out there, the better, because, you know, needs to be out there. It needs to be not ignored. And it's just, yeah, everybody is going to like something different. And that's, that's fine. And that's, that's why we also need so many different things. So many things. And yeah, it's, it's great. So I'm content. I'm content
where I landed. This has been so amazing. So I don't think we've talked about where people find
your books and where you are. You're on Instagram is Marlo Roy author. Where else are you that people can find you? Oh yeah. So my books are on Amazon. And my name is Marlo with, I don't probably have in the show notes, but there's an E on the end. And my left thing is Roy, like the first name. And my books are on Amazon only at this point.
The, the ruled by the Alpha anthology that I was in actually is published wide. So you can get that one. It barns a noble and Eden books and Apple books and all those different places. But I only have a short story in there. But I will say, it's a pretty solid anthology. And if you're at all interested in Omegaverse, it's a nice sampler platter. Yeah, yeah, of a bunch of authors. And I actually
really like the story that I put in that one. So I like it. And then otherwise, my books are on Amazon and I
am in Kindle Unlimited. So if people have Kindle Unlimited subscriptions, then my books are included with that. I hate to say free because you do pay for it. But free with Kindle Unlimited. But and I'm a fan
of Kindle Unlimited. I read almost exclusively from Kindle Unlimited. So I think it's kind of a great, a great product. So I am on Instagram. I am on Facebook. I'm
mostly on Instagram these days. And I am on Twitter. Twitter is probably where you get my most unhinged self. So Okay, yeah, because there's more of a open wildland,
although it's kind of been changing lately. But yeah, I know exactly what you're saying. Yeah, it's, you know, my, my probably weirder hot takes probably come on Twitter. And I, but I've sort of begrudgingly hauled myself onto Instagram, sort of take part in the books to Graham community, which is just such a force. I like Twitter is Twitter is the wild west. So you're right. I feel, I feel a little more
comfortable over there. I do think that writers and authors in general, like, we write, we write words. And so a word based medium like Twitter feels more comfortable versus this like, aesthetic image based thing on Instagram. And so very true. I have a really hard time with like the pretty picture aspect of Instagram and how you want to sort of, I guess, curate this feed that looks very consistent and on your brand. And, you know, interesting to look at. And I just, I'm not great at taking pictures of
grilled cheese. I'm not, you know, I, I, so I struggle, I struggle a little bit, a little bit with that. But I am there. So folks can find me there. And for sure, say hi, because I, I do talk to everyone. And I'm always so great. So happy to talk to people. And yeah, I mean, I'll just, you know, tell, I need to know a lot more about that, whatever that is. Exactly. That's fantastic. And then do you, do you do
any sort of website or do you kind of just stick to the social media? Oh, I do have a website. It's Marlo Roy.com. Very easy. And you can find all of my books there. And
you can sign up for my newsletter there. And my newsletter, eventually I am working on having like a freebie giveaway story right now. I have a freebie that I made up, which is just like a little reading journal that you can kind of print out and use. It's kind of an Omegaverse themed reading journal, which is just a goofy idea that I had. So you can get that if you sign up for
my newsletter. And then I don't write that many newsletters, probably one or two a month, which usually you're just kind of unhinged story about something that's going on in my life. So I will tell you, if you don't have much of a reader, readership or people who are subscribed to your newsletter, Story Origin App is a great way to build your newsletter subscriber list. I don't know if you've ever heard of that, but
it's just one of it. Yeah, I've been using BookFunnel, but I guess they're bookfunnels a good one too. I've heard too. Well, the really cool thing that I like about Story
Origin App is that you can collaborate very easily with other authors. And so you get in their newsletters, you know, so you're growing constantly, and some people will join and then leave, but overall you tend to grow. And then you can also do something where you create a reader magnet and then they sign up and then you share that. And if you're doing swaps, you can do swaps for existing books or swaps for like free books. And then people sign up to your newsletter to subscribe to get that particular reader magnet. And so it's a great way to grow if you don't have much of a list, you know? Yeah, I think swaps can be really nice. And it's just kind of nice to share the wealth, right? Like if you, and I try and do swaps with people that I really think my newsletter subscribers will jive with. Yeah, right. Like here, I love book recommendations. And when I have
a really trusted source for book recommendations, then that's very valuable. Like someone whose tastes are similar to mine. And so I try and, I try and hit that too for my subscribers. And I do try and kind of stay in Omegaverse because I have learned that my subscribers, that is what they will click on. Yes, you learn what they, you learn what they like. Yes. What they like. So, and they like what I like.
So it all works. It's just, it's just a big happy family. Now does book funnel have the ability to swap to,
or does that not have that? Oh, yeah, they do that too. And then they'll do the reader magnet delivery as well. So my, my reader's journal is sort of my magnet. And then it, it's delivered through book funnel. And then also book funnel has these like monthly things where it's like, there are, it's like a giant list. And it's like, we're doing one now that's like recent Omegaverse releases. And so we all sign up for kind of a group promo show. Yes. Share the link. And then everybody kind of gets their book shown to a number of people. It's so hard. This kind of stuff is the stuff
that I actually don't want to know more about. I actually don't know. It is a challenge. It's like, no, I just want
to sit in my little cave and think too hard about sentences and not come up with very many words. I want to torture myself on my own. Can I just do that? Exactly. Exactly. I totally get
that completely. So, but I meant to say congratulations to you too,
because I saw your placing in the golden pigtails is very super cool. You must be so proud. I was just really excited to be nominated. I mean, I just, you know, it's just so fun to be nominated me. Somebody nominated me. And then one of my audio books that I narrated for another erotica author got nominated too. So that was really exciting. That one didn't make it
to the finals, but it was still, it's still really fun to have had those things be nominated by someone and people voted on it. I mean, it's just, it's really just fun and it's an honor because there's so many great authors in that. So it's just really amazing to be among them, you know? Oh yeah. No, you should be super proud. It's really, you know, people kind of took a minute
out of their day to go vote for you, which is amazing. It's such a validating kind of thing, an affirming thing to have happen. So obviously, you know, keep going doing what you're doing. Yes, I'm totally honored. So that brings me to something that I wanted to
ask you to. Do you have any advice for people who are trying to get into writing or, you know, something that you feel like you learned along the way that you didn't know before or just something along those lines? Oh, wow. I do really still consider myself quite a novice. So I feel, you know, a little weird spouting advice, I guess. But I guess I would say, you know, you have to kind of follow your bliss, right? Like, write what you want to write. And There is a thing about writing to market, but I honestly think that if you really kind of set out to sort of craft something that's To market and your heart isn't in it that that really comes across. Yeah, I feel like you can feel that I feel like I can feel that so follow your bliss and you know, I think the most important thing is And again, this is totally an opinion but to focus on craft and just learning how to write a story and learning what are the parts of the story and learning what makes a good story and What makes a compelling character and what is a compelling conflict and how do you make that happen? And I love taking writing classes. I like reading books about craft and I think that it It never hurts to do more Learning about the craft and I think that the the business side is the not fun side to me I think some people really get into it, but it's not I'm into the I'm into the art side. Yeah, and I took a class with one of my absolute favorite writers absolute probably my absolute favorite writer Which is Tiffany Rice Okay, who is just I feel she can do no wrong I don't know. She would probably die if she heard me say that but Lovely as it turns out and I've taken a couple classes with her and one of the things she said that That I repeated is that it's it's art, right? You're making art. It's not a table from Ikea. It's supposed to be hard Yes, it's supposed to be
hard. And so I I repeated that to a lot of people like a musician friends that I have to I'm like you're making art. It's not a table from Ikea It's right, you know and Tiffany is so smart and so learned about writing and so experienced and has written a bazillion books and So just well read across all kinds of things So she's so my point of that is that she just like pops off things like this and you're like that's genius And I'm quoting it forever and Has forgotten that she said right right exactly. Yeah, yeah But I took a couple classes from her and they're on zoom and whatever and she's fantastic and very engaging and then actually like a Total nerd like a total absolute nerd I wrote her an email when my first book came out and I was like I just want to let you know that I took your class and blah blah blah and now I did this thing Yeah, and she wrote me back and it was lovely and No, just like super nice and supportive and so anyway take writing classes if you can afford to you know And I do think too often people in this community tend to be kind of generous And so I feel like if it's really a financial strain it never hurts to ask for a discount It never hurts to ask like the worst people can say is no, right? Yep, and they don't know you right? That's the funny thing like most of us have pen names and secret identities that person doesn't know you they will never see your face It's pretty low stakes just to ask and So I've been learning to learn I would say learning is probably the most important thing Absolutely, and I too feel like you need to keep reading. I feel like every book I read Somehow impacts my writing and I think that that is a huge thing that You know I've had periods too where I get so much more into writing than I do into reading But then I'll read something again. I'll be like dang it. Yes this this and so it impacts my writing And
I'm like I need to not I need to not not read that's hard to say Right to keep reading right reading the same thing or I'll read and I I get a lot of inspiration From reading and not not copying but like oh, that's an interesting thing. How would I do right? Yes, right? Yes, I do that in my book and you know, I took another class once with another great contemporary writer but Ronnie Ronnie Lauren and She teaches a really great like romance novel 101 kind of class which is like okay Here's and I had already written one when I took her class when I was like I should see if I'm doing this, right? and she talks about kind of all the stuff being research and Even any kind of storytelling being researched. So there's books, but also when you watch a movie, right? When you watch a movie or a TV show That's a kind of storytelling too. And so there's yeah, there's a lot that you can get get from that too Just in terms of thinking about story structure and what's compelling interestingly in Ronnie's class You know she we went through the different kind of aspects of the class and it's hard to talk in a class I think about certain story beats in a particular book because not everybody has read the same book and You don't want to maybe necessarily assign everybody to read a book. So they come to your class. So she talked about Movie, right? She's like, okay. Well,
we've all seen dirty dancing So we're gonna talk about dirty dancing as the prototype structure for a romance novel and if you haven't seen dirty dancing First of all, what are you doing second of all? Yeah, go watch it. Yes, but I thought that was really really smart too So sometimes now when I'm watching TV and I feel like oh, I should be writing. I think no, no, I'm doing research Oh, that's a really good point. Actually, it's true. I mean, that's just a different way of storytelling But
it's still storytelling. Yeah. Yeah, that's a very good point. Yes. Absolutely This has been totally amazing I love chatting
with you and but is there anything else you want to talk about or bring up before we end our discussion? I Don't think so we covered a lot of ground. We have it's been fantastic. I really enjoyed our chat I really had fun. Thank you for coming on. Oh, thank you so much for having me This is so exciting and I've been listening to you know a lot of your episodes and you have such cool guests like Listen to the Nikki French episode and I was like, oh, yeah, I need to know a lot more about that again So now I was like following her on Instagram and she is just wild and has yes the coolest life Are sure she does now she's traveling again. I know it's going all around the world I mean just amazing to me amazing and I was like, yes go around the world and boss men around do that I Love you. Good for you girl. Good for you. I talked to so many amazing people I just it's
so amazing doing this this in the person. I just talked to I just interviewed I think it was yesterday. Gosh, I liked it so many interviews I'm like, wow, what day was that but she created She created this show during the pandemic. It's called watch girls watch porn Right and so she uploaded it to to a porn hub and it's she did she and her husband did it during the Pandemic and it exploded. Oh, yeah Did she do it like commentary? It's like it's mystery science data 3000 type Well, what what she does is she has guests on who are in the sexuality realm in some way and then she and the guest watch A porn video and comment on it and it's so interesting and it just really took off It was amazing to talk with her because it it's taken off Born hub ended up partnering with her and hiring her as a sex educator and now she's starting to take the show on the road to do live Commentary. Yes, something that she just started and during the pandemic, you know for the heck of it And she's got a history of being a dancer for eight years. I mean, it's just wild and her life is just
wild It's amazing where it's going. So I just am so feel so fortunate to get to talk to all these people and you I think it's amazing I came on my show too. So thank you for coming on But yeah, it's just this wild amazing journey and I have all these different kinds of people on the show And I'm constantly learning and enjoying myself. It's mind-blowing great, I mean such a such a cool thing and I love to talk to people so I Really can't do you for just being like I'm gonna spin up a podcast where I talk to people and you know I do think that that's one of the things that we really Missed out on in the pandemic is not just Not just like being with our loved ones or being our friends, but a lot of really like small casual interactions That kind of make up the the flavor of our lives and you know, yeah I'm not best friends with the barista, right? But have a social interaction with someone where it's like, oh, hey That's a cool top you're wearing or wow, that's an awesome tattoo and how are you today and you know, yes Isn't this rain crazy? whatever Those things those things we think of them as small talk or meaningless or what it because people say that meaningless small talk But they're really not they're really not no no and and I I feel like that's one of the things that I really miss in in the world that hasn't quite come back is being in you know office or even work spaces with people and Not having those little interactions as water cooler interactions Anyway, this is a total tangent but you know, I totally get that I'm a little more extroverted and I don't mind talking to strangers and for a lot of people That's not the case and that makes them right I Get it, but I think for me kind of the the little interaction of our lives I really I really miss and yeah, yeah, wish we could get back to that You know like I don't know the world the world went on a divergent path there and It was a fork in the road and we're not going back to the other fork. So Yeah, I think the planet pandemic really showed that to everyone that those are like little pieces of community and they matter and You can you can have small community with someone or large community like yeah Just talking to a barista and getting so those yes all of those things matter And I think that really is what the pandemic has brought to the light of many people to realize all that matters It really does for quality of life. It matters and and you know, I let's see who said that I Don't know who I can't cry at them. I'm sorry, but someone said Once that human beings are
like 90% chimp and 10% be Right No, there is there is a bit of needing the hive. Yes And we all need our hive a little bit and our hives really got Thrown in the trash during the pandemic and I think now we're in there We're in the squeaky business right now of trying to rebuild the hive and It's a tough one. Yeah, it's like starved out pretty much, right? I mean, right? so, you know, but you know read read romance novels and I fancy romance novels and then That's your hive Exactly, there you go. It is a piece of community. It's a story of it. So in some way shape or form Well, thank you
so much again, this has been amazing and I can't wait to have a go live. It's it's gonna be really awesome Oh, cool. Thank you so much. All right. Thank you so much for listening to this amazing discussion
I had with author Marlo Roy. We had such a great chat. I really enjoyed it I hope you did too find her books read them. They're amazing if you're into this stuff You will love her books down in the podcast show notes are links to her books and where you can find her and Links to my books and where I am all across the internet as well So check that out down in the podcast notes and again, thank you to my sponsors who sponsored this episode I can do this with your help your support So take advantage of those deals and help support the podcast too if you like my podcast, please follow along subscribe Give me a comment a rating if really really helps me grow if you do that So if you enjoy it, I would love for you to do that and thank you so much Don't forget to enjoy your life. Hey read a book read a sexy book full of
spicy yummy stuff You won't regret it. You'll enjoy it. You'll love it and oh fuck. Yeah, you have an amazing fucking day. Love you