Writing the Queer Experience: Mx Sinclair Sexsmith on Kink Storytelling, Erotica, and D/s Relationships

Season 5, Ep 555: Writing the Queer Experience: Mx Sinclair Sexsmith on Kink Storytelling, Erotica, and D/s Relationships.
Meet the author!
SINCLAIR SEXSMITH (they/them) is a queer butch writer focusing on sexualities, genders, kink, and relationships. Their short story collection, Sweet & Rough: Queer Kink Erotica, was a 2016 finalist for a Lambda Literary Award, and they are the editor of 5 editions of Best Lesbian Erotica. Find more of their work at sugarbutch.net.

Books: Best Lesbian Erotica (affiliate links, podcast may receive commissions on sales through this link. Thank you!) https://amzn.to/3PurEo0
"Your Year in Kink" Workbook https://amzn.to/3WdrOUH
"The Harder She Comes: Butch Femme Erotica" https://amzn.to/424GWYb
Links: https://theoreads.com/
https://dsplayground.com/
http://writingspicy.com/

Quotes from Sinclair Sexsmith:
"I can't stop writing. Like, I need to write to understand myself and understand the world."
"I think writer's block is a myth."
"I love the inner world stuff and I think writing is one of the best places to express that."
"I want to encourage more queers and trans folks, and like kinky folks, to write down their stories."

In this episode, Ruan and Sinclair discuss their shared passion for writing, the challenges of titling works, and the complexities of self-publishing in the erotica genre. They explore the nuances of writing about sex and intimacy, the importance of queer representation in literature, and the creative process behind crafting compelling narratives.

Sinclair shares their thoughts on the intersection of writing and sex work, the drive to create authentic queer stories and queer fiction, the writing process, publishing, and the transformative power of literature. They also discuss the upcoming platform Theo Reads, which promises to be a haven for erotica and romance writers and readers alike.

Timeline:
02:41 Do you like writing, teaching or creating
08:14 I feel pretty strongly that writing about sex is non sex work
10:09 There's still a lack of representation of queer sex in mainstream erotica
16:38 How are you with titles? 
18:53 Pretty much everything I write has D/s
28:48 What are other are your favorite kinks to write 
29:57 So when you're writing, do you start with your idea or do you
40:22 What is too personal to share, what is too vulnerable to share
43:39 Like separating the writing and publishing process is important
49:12 reading out loud is probably his number one editing tool
53:48 all about like your courses
56:54 This workbook is about reflecting on someone's kink life
01:01:42 What are you working on right now that you can share
01:02:59 When my dad died I was like, why am I not writing more
01:07:24 lgtbq and writing Coming out to your family can be tricky and painful
headliner app

Transcript

This transcript was created by headliner ai. It is not been edited by a human so it will not be 100% accurate. Please excuse the errors and misspellings. Email ruanwillow@gmai.com with questions.

Season 5, Episode 555:

Ruan Willow: Hello, everyone. This is Ruan. Willow. I'm super excited you're here. I get to talk to another person who likes to write. I always love to talk to writers. It's so much fun. People who like to create like I do, and especially when they include the topics of sexuality in their writing, that is always something I love to talk about, and I'm super excited. So I'm going to introduce you to this person, and then we're going to just chat about whatever we want writing and all kinds of good stuff. Sinclair Sexmith, they them is a queer butch writer focusing on sexualities, genders, kink, and relationships. Their short story collection, Sweet and Rough Queer King erotica, was a 2016 finalist for a Lambda Literary Award, and they are the editor of five editions of Best Lesbian Erotica. Find more of their work@sugarbch.net. headshots. Oh, yep. And then, we work. When you find you sugarbridge.net find Sinclair. Correct.

>> Speaker B Sinclair Sexsmith: M m. Yeah, we'll put that in the show notes, too, so people can.

>> Ruin Willow: Just click on 100%. I will definitely do that. So welcome. I'm super excited to talk to you.

>> Speaker B Sinclair Sexsmith: I'm excited to talk to you, too. I've seen your name around because we're both getting involved with Theo, which is starting soon. We could talk about that a little. but I didn't know your work before you got involved with Theo, so now I've got the pleasure of catching up on some of it and, like, learning about all the amazing audiobooks and the podcast and, your own writing. So I'm excited to talk to you. Thanks.

>> Ruin Willow: I love to. I love to create stuff, and I love to create stuff across different topics. You know, it's just super fun for me and you, too. You have so much content everywhere. Books, you. I even noticed you're even on Etsy. You do courses, right? We have a lot of things we can talk about.

>> Speaker B Sinclair Sexsmith: Yeah, absolutely. It's. I. I kind of have that creator bug, too, where I just, am like, oh, I have an idea. Let's make a little kinky T shirt store and put up, you know, because everybody at the kinky conferences all have their black T shirts with their re. Just, like, words on them, right? With the little cheeky phrases or whatever. And I wanted to make some that I thought were cuter than some of the other ones that have, use weird fonts and we're simple. Some of them just say, like, dominant or like, single or like, I'm shy, say hi, or, you know, lots of things. Like that it's fun.

>> Ruin Willow: I like that, I like that. It's ye. It's just very simple, very direct. Hey, this is a little piece of me, you know, kind of a little announcement of a little part of who you are. And so that's really fun.


Do you like the writing, the teaching or the creating

And so when you're doing your stuff, which area do you like, you know, love the most? Do you like the writing? Do you like the teaching, the creating? What is your like, do you have a top one?

>> Speaker B: Yeah, the writing for sure. Writing. I mean I've always been a writer since I was a little kid. I have always wanted to be a writer. I've always been to write books. Books just have been such a giant influence. I mean I don't even know how you can't say books. Like of course books have been a giant influence, but like some people are just readers and are like immersed in the, in fiction or in like the magic of meandering through a story. Like And the things that writing can do specifically, which I really think is about articulating the inner world of characters or of the self in a way that like it's really hard to do in a film or in musicbe maybe a little music. But like it's hard depict that in any other genre and medium I think. So I just love the inner world stuff and I think writing is one of the best places to express that and to do it. I mean I love teaching, I love coaching. I do one on one work with people mostly around DS and also around erotica writing. And I love making products like making things exist. Like that's super fun too. But if I could only do one thing, it would be writing. Absolutely. And I wish writing paid enough that that was the only thing I was doing. But I've never made a living wage at writing.

>> Ruin Willow: Writing is top for me too. So I totally understand. I agree with all you said. You know, it's recently saw something online on social media that said readers live thousands of lives, lives in their lifetimes. And it's so true. I too was a reader m when I was even when, when I was young. And I even wrote when I was young too. I had like a notebook. I actually wrote in a notebook, wrote stories like I always wanted to read. You know, like as I obsessed with reading, my sister would be annoyed at me, like come play a game with me. And I'm like well no, I'm reading a book. What? Like books, I would consume them incessantly even in college, you knowly. I mean, I just can't get enough. And so, yeah, in the worlds that we can create, the intimacy we can create with a reader by what we write, I think it's just phenomenal, you know, like what. Where we can go, how deep we can go. We can go less, we can go more, we can go wherever we want. And that's. I don't. I think you're right. There really isn't any other medium that has as much flexibility as writing does.

>> Speaker B: Absolutely. And you know, at the. If you are at the top or whatever, in the middle, even of any field, there comes a point when someone goes, maybe I should write a book. Maybe I should write all that I know down. Even if it's like, I don't know how to sell houses or how to ride horses or how to be a plumber or whatever it is. Like, you can, portray this knowledge in that book to, to other people and share your knowledge that way. Right. but then there's also like, writing for writing's sake and like, writing stories, which is just such a different, like artistic and creative and like craft pursuit that has just always been so deeply important and valuable. a friend of mine, long ago, you sees the phrase, paperback mentors for like, books that really changed her life. and like, authors that she feels like she knows but has never actually met. But like, you know, I figure, I think of like, I don't know, Leslie Feinberg as a mentor of mine. I did meet them once or twice, but like, I. We didn't have a personal relationship, you know, so. But like, I would refer to Leslie Fininberg as like a paperback mentor because I was mentored through their books.

>> Ruin Willow: Ye.

>> Speaker B: And leaving that legacy or capacity or like, knowledge for other people, just feels so valuable to me. And maybe because I needed it so badly, you know, with, with other people's books, in some ways I can't even imagine the things that I leave. It's not really a. Ah. My point is not to leave them because I think they're so important. My point is I can't stop writing. Like, I need to write to like, understand myself and understand the world. And And then sometimes other people like to read it and that's great. But mostly it's for me. It's for my capacity to like, know myself.

>> Ruin Willow: Yeah, I understand where you're coming from and for me too. It's just. I just have so many stories in me that need to come out. I recently was having this discussion with Someone and they were saying their opinion was that erotica was sex work. And for me, I was kind of like, okay, I can of understand that. But I'm really writing these stories because I want to write the stories. So I don't really like, think of myself as like. I mean, I love it if people think it's hot and they get off. But I'm writing these stories because they're in me and I want to create more than I'm thinking in my head. I'mnna. I'm, you know, like, my top thing isn't this is sex work. This is. You know what I mean? Like, that's not how I think of it. And so I'm just like, so interesting how people have different perspectives about why they write and what they write. And we're going how they package that to the world and how they view it, you know?


I feel pretty strongly that writing about sex is non sex work

>> Speaker B: Absolutely, yeah, absolutely. And people, I think like, and it sounds like you and I both who were driven to writing from a young age, likees, and found it as a creative, expressive medium. Like, I've always been a journaler. I was always.

>> Ruin Willow: Me too.

>> Speaker B: You know, diaries and writing and poetry and that kind of, you know, that kind of stuff. what was I going toa say about that?

>> Ruin Willow: Something around where you were driven to. What, what is your like, driver for writing, perhaps writing stories, creating stories?

>> Speaker B: Oh, no, writing is not sex work. I feel pretty strongly that writing about sex is non sex work. mostly because the people who put their bodies on the line, doing things that like, they can have real big consequences in ways that writing books does not have. I mean, it can still have consequences. You can be outed to your boss or to your parents or, you know, like, there can be consequences, but they're very different.

>> Ruin Willow: Yes.

>> Speaker B: And usually they usually won't land anyone in jail. You know, they usually won't land anyone with violence. Hopefully. Like, it's not impossible, I suppose, but you know, I just think the risks are so much higher. I do, however, see it as one of the like, sexuality professions, you know.

>> Ruin Willow: Sure, sure.

>> Speaker B: but not necessarily like. So if you're talking about sex work as in work around sex. Yes, sure. But if you're talking about sex work as in like selling a sexual experience, usually with one's body. No, I don't. I think.

>> Ruin Willow: Right.

>> Speaker B: Firmly on the other side, I agree.

>> Ruin Willow: And to me it's just, I'm creating a story. Whether it has sex in it or not, I'm still telling a story. So to me, I like to Include sex, because I like to hear the full story. I like to have that spice. I want to know how they're like when they're intimate. I think you can learn a lot about a character when they're intimate, right? Like'just so much.

>> Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely.


There's still a lack of representation of queer sex in mainstream erotica

>> Ruin Willow: and is that why you like to include sex or.

>> Speaker B: I think yes. And I think, I think some of it is. Comes from u, U, queerness specifically. And like the drive and desire to see more queer sex and more queer U, bodies and like, what queer intimacy is and looks like. Like both because it's been so influential to me to read people who have written things like that and also because, there's still such a lack of. Of people's. Of queer stories, of queer bodies, of trans bodies, of people of color, of like, disabled bodies, neurodivergent experiences, all of that, like, around sexuality, even asexual experiences around either, either sex or just like, intimacy, kink, other kind of ways of, having pleasure with partners. Like, it doesn't have to be literal sex. It could be other kinds of eroticism. and I think we need. I still think we need so much more representation than we have. which is a big piece of why I've also done a lot of erotica teaching because I want to encourage those voices in the world. And I found that like, my community and my friends and my like, like the people who are just around have such incredible stories about the kink and the sex that they pursue. And when I was editing the Best Lesbian Androtica series, or before that, a couple of anthologies, I was really surprised at the low quality of the caliber the of the submissions and was just like, but I know my friends are having better sex than these stories. Like, maybe I can just get them to write them down, you know?

>> Ruin Willow: Right.

>> Speaker B: And so that was kind of where that started of really wanting to encourage more queers and trans folks, and like kinky folks and radical folks who are thinking hard about sex and kink and bodies and liberation and like the ways that that's both a pleasure practice and a like, liberatory practice. You can just like, get more of that in the books and on the pages or on the websites or wherever they are. I mean, there hasn't been great places online to publish your erotica. No, really, like, you can do it yourself on your own website or Instagram or whatever. But, like, there haven't been great depots for that. And I am really hoping Theo will help with that.

>> Ruin Willow: We'll see. I Think it will. I mean, I imagine that it will because, first of all, the writers that are already involved with it and the openness of it, you know, how people are going to be able to curate, know, specific experiences. Like, I want this topic, not this one. or this, this. And there isn'tnna be this, like, you know, shadow banning or this gaslighting, like, we get on some of these other platforms where, yes, we'll publish your stuff, but you can't use those words and you might not be findable. You know, like, absolutely.

>> Speaker B: Is the worst.

>> Ruin Willow: It is total. Really is.

>> Speaker B: Or the double standards of, like, of course, you know, Chanel can show naked bodies, but you can't. That'snna get you banned or that's gonna get you suspended, you know, or whatever. whatever. Example. I don't. I don't mean to pick on Chanel. I have no idea if they have nudity in their ads.

>> Ruin Willow: I don't know. But. Right. Yeah, I know what you're saying is, like, certain people have certain rules and the rest of us don't. You know, like, people. You know, it's.

>> Speaker B: Yeah, it is tough. I think people don't really realize how difficult it is to, for example, advertise for an erotica writing group. you know, I had a friend who was like, oh, I'm. I'm an expert at, you know, Facebook ads. Like, I'd be happy to help you. And we start looking at it and making ads, and then they're like, oh, your account isn't approved for ads because you have sexuality words. Oh, they won't let you boost this ad because it has the word erotica in it or the site that you're linking to has the wor. Erotic in it. And I was like, yeah, like, I would give Meta my money, but they won't take it, apparently. Just really sucks.

>> Ruin Willow: I know. It's the same thing on Amazon. Like, I've tried to put ads in and they never go. You know, what I don't understand, and I guess it's really frustrating, is that they can funnel this stuff very easily, you know, Absolutely. People can check. I want to see this. I want to see this, and I don't want to see that. They're the biggest company in the world. I think they could handle doing a little bit of funneling.

>> Speaker B: Absolutely. There's other ways, right. That the safe search mode is on or, off or whatever. Like, it shouldn't be that hard. It should not.

>> Ruin Willow: No, it's B's. And there's other reasons for it. But they're willing to make money on us, which is the other thing. It's just crazy. But it is a place to publish so you know, everybody still does it. But. Yeah. So Theo res is really exciting because we're not gonna half out that raap.

>> Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I'm really looking forward to it. So, u. I don't think there's an official launch date yet. and I don't know when this is going to come out. I don't remember if we covered that already. But it's supposed to be at the end of the year in 2024. Theom. and Theo reads will be a huge database like depository of erotica and romance stories and novels and books and and series and then also like one offs and you should be able to filter by like tropes and kinks and you know, or you know, definitely none of this. And lots of this or what, you know, lots of different ways to to filter the stories. I'm really excited to read a bunch of stories on there and, and to publish some of my own stuff. I've got a novel that I've never published that I'm gonna put put up in the first couple chapter. I don't know, maybe chapter will be free and then the whole thing will be a package kind of thing. I'm trying to find a title for it. I've lost a title and I. In my editing now I've been trying to scour the lines for the right title and I haven't quite gotten it yet. But I think it's coming, it's coming.


How are you with titles? How do you figure out titles

How are you with titles? How do you figure out titles?

>> Ruin Willow: well, it is hard cause you kind of have to decide also where you're publishing it. Cause there's certain words can't use a certain platforms. So then yeah, you know, and I've tried different things. Short titles, long titles, you know, descriptive titles. But yeah, know it's a really hard game because you really want to. You'd like the title to really kind of give people an idea of what the story and the book are about, you know, without misleading them not, you know, unintentionally misleading them to a different idea. So yeah, it can be a big challenge. You're trying to work within all these confines, trying to get people what they want and not be disappointed and yet also portray the book. So we're kind of like, we're kind of trying to wiggle through all these, this maze of all this stuff to find a good title that makes sense to me. Yeah, I have a really long book too that I'm considering putting on there. It's like. It's long though. It's like 90,000 words. I'm like. It's really long.

>> Speaker B: Oh, cool.

>> Ruin Willow: But I haven't. I wrote it and I kind of just let it sit. It's an erotic suspense thriller, I guess you'd call it. Something I've never written before. So I'm considering putting that on there. I don't know. But you know, to think of like editing 90,000 words, it's very daunting.

>> Speaker B: Yeah. I think mine is about 60 and it has been. I have not really wanted to do the work of editing.

>> Ruin Willow: Honestly. It's not my favorite part.

>> Speaker B: It is hard and I'm at this point I'm leaving a fair chunk of it. You know, it's been gone over once or twice kind of lightly. But I haven't done the deep edit that I've dreamed of. And I think it's gonna be what it is. It's also. I might be 10, like 8 or 10 years old now too for mine. So like it's the same thing. I wrote it and then I've just been like, I should edit that and just kind of sat in the drawer. So I'm really stoked that it gets to have a life on. On Theo. And we'll just. We'll see like. Because I just don't think I'm going to do the work to publish it as a book on my own at this point or like submitt it to publishers. So I think is going to be a great place for it.

>> Ruin Willow: Oh for sure.


Pretty much everything I write has DS and has dominance inshibition

So what are your favorite kinks to write about?

>> Speaker B: M. I mean pretty much everything I write has DS and has dominance inshibition. sure. Not. Have I written things without that. I mean, I guess some of the stories have like top and bottom stuff and more like More What's the word? Like physical kinks as opposed to the power play and the like control or psychological aspects of dominance and submission. But but. But mostly now I write a lot of ds, and I write a lot of daddy stories in general. So probably those are high up there.

>> Speaker B: Then there's a bunch of stuff that makes me a little bit blushed to talk about, I think, which is fine and I can do.

>> Ruin Willow: I love that. But like things like it'the juicy stuff.

>> Speaker B: Very like cock centric. So like lots of cocks, lots of penetration, lots of like cock worship. Lots of whatever. M. Lots of cockay in general. Lanza. And then, like, I would really loved writing a lot of filth. and like, by filth, I mean, like, mess. Like body fluid stuff lately.

>> Ruin Willow: Gotcha. Okay.

>> Speaker B: Y. And come. And even like, breast milk or,

>> Ruin Willow: Oh, sure.

>> Speaker B: Piss or whatever. Like any blood play, even, like, any of that.

>> Ruin Willow: I'm just messy stuff.

>> Speaker B: I'm in. Yeah, I'm in. I'm there. Although I feel shy about it. Like, I don't publish a ton of it. I write, really publish. And I keep thinking maybe I want another pen name.

>> Ruin Willow: I'm just gonna say, why not do another pen name? If you feel a little, like, shy about it? You don't want people to know. Pen name. That's m. Always. I know. I've been adding pen names too, but I keep, I keep still tying them to myself because ruin. Willow is my biggest one. So then I'm like. So then I end up like. Like, co authoring it with the name'interesting. Yeah.

>> Speaker B: Name.

>> Ruin Willow: And the thing is, what you can do then is you can get another, like, author page on Amazon and so you can tie them and have it on both pages. So there's different things you can do. I don't know. I know a lot of people that do the. Completely keeping them separate. So this is kind of an experiment for me. So we'll see what happens.

>> Speaker B: But I would love to know how it goes. I think I've been wanting to have a little more of. Of a body of work before I put it out, but, But I'm getting closer to having that. And also. And also, like, what would the name be? It's like the same problem is coming up with the title. It takes a long time. You want it to be a good one.

>> Ruin Willow: I know, right? Yeah. I kind of get. I've gotten kind of silly with some of mine, but's. It's. They're all kind of like, centered around ruin Willow somehow a little bit of a shift, you know?

>> Speaker B: Yeah.

>> Ruin Willow: I've been doing. I've been doing some taboo stuff on smash words too, which is kind of nice because you can do that over there. So then my name over there is Ru and Will. Ho.

>> Speaker B: That's fantastic. Oh, man. I was thinking, U. St. Clair for a while as a last name, because Sinclair and like, that's kind of how you pronounce St. Clair in British English, right? Just sin instead of Saint.

>> Speaker B: sure. So I've been playing with that, but we'll see how I Don't know yet where it's gonna go.

>> Ruin Willow: I don't know.

>> Speaker B: I haven'tided.

>> Ruin Willow: I like to. I like to write a lot of dom sub stuff too. I've written one woman loving woman. One My magic and her kisses is that one. And that one was really fun. Cause I made her a nerdy professor dom who's just exploring her domhood. She just like is coming into it.


Do you read a lot of romance or romanticy or erotic romance

That was really fun. And professor student affair. And so that was really pretty. I mean, that one I think has a little bit more smuttiness in it. It has story, but maybe a little more smutty that stuff than my other ones. And then I do a lot of dom sub male, female. I love to write multiple partner. I love to write threesomes. I just wrote my first romant to see that spicy. That was really fun.

>> Speaker B: Ooh, that's so fun. What's that one called? Is it out yet?

>> Ruin Willow: Yes. Wingless Hunger. So I'm gonna write three or four small novellas and then put them all in one big bookh. But yeah, yeah, so we'll see how it goes. the first one's been received well. People seem to like it, so. But you know, with romanticy it's hard because some people want, still want a lot of that fantasy world building. And for me it has more of the romance and the sexuality. So then they're not going to get this big major world building because that's not what I like. I love the romance, I the sex and the relationships. And so I'mnna have a little bit of fantasy in there, but it's not going to be like this big world building that some people do in fantasy. But from what I've read, that's what a lot of romanticy is. It's more focused on the romance than the fantasy side.

>> Speaker B: Yeah. Do you read a lot of that of romance or romanticy or any of those genres?

>> Ruin Willow: probably romance and in erotica, erotic romance. I have not read a whole lot of fantasy, but I like it. I'm kind of fearless. I kind of just like douche shit.

>> Speaker B: Psychological thriller, romance. Of course I can write that, whatever you call it, mystery thriller.

>> Ruin Willow: And I'm having a lot of fun right now. I'm narrating, a, very taboo, very taboo story. And I just love being the nasty people. Like I love playing that out, right. Like it's a male domination story. He's actually onn to be on theor res too, this guy.

>> Speaker B: Great. Oh, that's exciting. Maybe what it is if you can.

>> Ruin Willow: Oh, yeah. I'll tell you his name, though.

>> Speaker B: He's always Ros.

>> Ruin Willow: All these roadworks.

>> Speaker B: Okay.

>> Ruin Willow: He writes a ton of, male domination stuff. I mean, like, degradation. Like, you know, I just love playing these crazy, insane characters. You know, I love playing this out, this extreme stuff. I'm like, I love to act it out. It's like, super fun.

>> Speaker B: Great. Ooh, I love this. That's definitely. I'm gonna both look them up and, keep an eye out for that book when it comes out. I, am y. You know, I had a whole, I think it was like adult, understanding or like, wait, hold on. Too many sentences in this one moment. I came to understand myself as having ADHD just in the last, like five years. And I'm 45, so I was about 40. And that has been quite a revelation. and also, I think having untreated ADHD for a long time meant that in my 30s, late 30s, it got really hard for me to concentrate enough to read books. Actually. Like, I kind of. I didn't stop reading because I am constantly reading and, you know, constantly, like, assessing books. I worked in bookstores for a long time too, and, just love books. But, like, it was harder for me to sit down and like, get immersed in a novel and like, lose my. Lose time and just like, sit and read and stay up late and turn the pages, whatever. yeah, and since being medicated, that has been much better and much easier to do. But also, one of the things I did was start listening to audiobooks. So I've been just like, devouring audiobookse u. way more than I used to, and it makes me feel accomplished to listen to them, you know? and like, I finally got getting through some books that have been on my TBR for years, which just is like, phew, thank goodness, right? Like, I want to have read. Read that book in my life or listen to that book. I think they're just as, valuable to listen to as to read. Right?

>> Ruin Willow: For sure, for sure.

>> Speaker B: Some people say, like, it's not real reading. whatever. I don't know.

>> Ruin Willow: Screw that's B's. And the thing about that is too, like, what are you gonna say to all these teacher and parents, Teachers and parents who've been reading their children for, like, years, like, it is reading. Shut up, you dumb asses. AB m. It is reading. I just get so annoyed at that.

>> Speaker B: I'm like, yeah, me too. There was someone, I think it was on TikTok who was saying like, why is. Well, I, you know, you just looked. I just listened to a book.


Some people don't process information visually the way others do

Sure, but you just looked at a book. Why is my sense any better than your senso or your sense better than my sense? There's no reason. I know some people, just don't process information visually the way they do auditorily or vice versa. I have plenty of friends who are like, oh, I can't do audiobooks, I don't do podcasts. Like, I'm m not an auditory learner that way. M sure, great, that's fine. I'm glad you have other options, but right now it's great.


Um, and I don't know how you what you've noticed

and I don't know how you what you've noticed, but I feel like in the last 5ish years, erotica and romance has just gone through the roof. have you noticed this?

>> Ruin Willow: M. I don't know if it's because of self publishing, I mean, possibly because all of a sudden everybody's just able to put this stuff out there. Which I think it's amazing me live in this time right now. Never in history have writers been able to create something and disseminate it to the world. Like this is huge.

>> Speaker B: So easily and so quickly and so without editing. And some of them are terrible and.

>> Ruin Willow: Also don't do that.

>> Speaker B: Glad that they exist in the world. Like yeah, because why not? M. Like I'm still glad. I don't think to be perfect put them out there.

>> Ruin Willow: No, they don't. But I do think you should have it well edited before you put it out there.

>> Speaker B: That is my preference as well. But you know, M. Maybe that's their kink.

>> Ruin Willow: Who knows, right?

>> Speaker B: What?

>> Ruin Willow: Tell them they did it wrong or oh my God.

>> Speaker B: Right. Exactly.


What are other are your favorite kinks to write and narrate

What are other are your favorite kinks to write and, and ordinary aside, I like to taboo.

>> Ruin Willow: Gosh, I like to do everything. I just, I am not singular in any means. I'm like all over the place. I like to try everything done everything from, giantism, like the growing and shrinking of people. Amber Collins. I've narrated quite a few books for her. She does. And that's all she does. She does all this, you know, growing and shrinking stuff. Like a man shrinks down and's like a dildo. Right? Like, you know, stuff like that. And then, I've done. I love to do hot wife stuff too. I think that's really, that's sexy to write and narrate. I like to do that, alternative lifestyle wife sharing. Oh my gosh, what else have I Done. Hot. Taboo Hot Wife. I had another. Another author that writes Taboo Hot Wife. I've narrated for them. Oh gosh. I just have had a lot of fun doing it. So I just. I'm not stopping.

>> Speaker B: M. No, I'm so. I'm glad you're not. It's like. That's a lot of good stuff. There's a lot of good stuff in there.

>> Ruin Willow: Oh absolutely.


So when you're writing, do you start with your idea or do you

So when you're writing and you're sitting down to write, do you start with your idea or do you start with your characters? The kink. Where do you usually start when you're sitting down to write a story? What's like your starting point?

>> Speaker B: M. Kind of depends on it. Depends, I think is. Is the answer. But sometimes, there's an a call for submissions or an anthology or something and it'll have a theme and then I'll be chewing on that theme and something will kind of hit me about like, oh, maybe it'll be this kind of story. And then I'll just start it and you know, it's kind of writing it to the. For the call for submissions. U. I've noticed less anthologies lately also. Unless calls for submissions. And I think that that also has to do with the rise and self publishing and And like even singular stories being published on Amazon on Kindle for. Yeah, 93 99. Whatever.

>> Ruin Willow: O. Yeah, I know a lot of people like do. I've done it too. And it is a nice option because some people like short stories. Like we were just talking. They don't want to get immersed in a big long book. They like the shortness.

>> Speaker B: Right, Right. Yeah. Especially when you're looking for erotica or smut to just like get off. You don't necessarily want a novel. You might want just quickie, which I thinkly makes a lot of sense. and I The anthologies have always been that go to. For me. Right. Because there's, you know, 10, 20 different authors, all different voices. Even if I. If I don't like some, I'm gonna like others probably, you know. But I. Yeah, it's. It's so variable what I. What inspires me to write or what I start with. sometimes it's just a particular line or image that I get stuck in my head and then I have to like write it down. It kind of flows from there. Sometimes it's with the intention of writing something to submit somewhere. Lately, I've been, well, so sugar butch. My website started in 2006 and it was Very much a tell all, like, personal diary kind of site with a lot of true stories and a lot of like. I mean, at the time I was really trying to figure out, come into like, my identity as a queer person. I mean, it wasn't a question of whether I was queer, but I was like, how do I, like, find a partner that I want to date for a long time? And how do I, like, be the like, gender that I want to be and how do I have the sex life that I want to have? And all of those kind of felt all merged together, right? Like gender, relationships, kink, sex. And And so a lot of it was almost like notes and to myself of like, okay, so I went on a date last night and this is what we did and this is what happened and it was really awesome here. And then I didn't make a move and that was kind of shitty and I should make a move next time.

>> Ruin Willow: Or, you know, whatever.

>> Speaker B: Like, almost like reflecting on it.

>> Ruin Willow: Yeah.

>> Speaker B: And I don't write a lot of true stories anymore. for various reasons, probably some of which are very obvious. Like, the Internet in 202006 was a very different place. And writing an anonymous, like, sex blog of your true exploits is. Was just a very different thing to do.

>> Ruin Willow: yes.

>> Speaker B: And I have much more of a platform and like, visibility now, and so I don't share as much personal details like, Like I did then. Like, I'd still share a lot of personal details. But, So lately I've been thinking a lot about how can I make kind of an amalgam character of like, the multiple people that I'm dating to write about the stories and the things that I've been doing, but like fictionally with a fake character instead of actually saying like, I'm dating this girl. Last night we did X. Right. Which I don't really want to do. So I. That kind of feels like a little bit like starting with the character because I've been really chewing on like, who is that person? And how do I kind of make her, almost like a fantasy girlfriend to be just like, yeah, this is the kind of stuff that. That, Sinclair loves to do. Even if it's not like, personally or if it's not like the literal stories that. That are true. Right. Ye.

>> Ruin Willow: Right. Or not even, you know, not presented actually as memoir, but mem. Presented as, ah, fiction stories.

>> Speaker B: Right, right, right, right. Yeah. M. Yeah.

>> Ruin Willow: Yep.


M: I get too many ideas all the time, which is why

>> Speaker B: How do you start with? Do you start with an idea or do you start with like, character? What do you? What's your process?

>> Ruin Willow: Yeah, I'm kind of like that, too. It depends on what I'm writing. Like, if I'm writing something for an anthology or if I'm following, you know, a series. And that's kind of confined, but I get too many ideas all the time, which is why I think I write so many different things. I just can't stick to one thing. I'm, kind of all over the place. But, yeah, usually, I guess I figure, I don't know, sometimes I just sit down and I just start writing, and I don't necessarily even have anything, but I. I am constantly having to create, like, you know, I'm always making stories for the podcast and, you know, I just. It's like constant, you know, like, so I don't know. It is kind of different. If I. If I know that I'm writing something, the next chapter or whatever, then obviously that's already set. Those characters exist, that situation exists. But, yeah, I think I'm kind of all over the place too. I don't necessarily have one set thing, and I definitely feel like I'm, you know, sometimes I usually have sort of a little slim outline, but I'm more of a pantser. How about you?

>> Speaker B: M. Yeah, definitely. I mean, sometimes I can. I can see like one or two scenes ahead, like, oh, we're kind of going here. But also, sometimes the character Rebel and don't want to do that.

>> Ruin Willow: Oh, exactly.

>> Speaker B: I don't. I try not to get too attached to where I think it's going because sometimes it does not go there.

>> Ruin Willow: Oh, exactly. No, they say, nope, that's not what's happening. This is what's happening. Ye. That happens to me all the time too. You're more recording what's going on than you are, like, master container of what's going on.

>> Speaker B: Oh, that's interesting. I like that idea, actually. It does kind of feel like sometimes I just catch the story and. As opposed to have any control over.

>> Ruin Willow: It, to make it myself. Ye. you know, when. When I'm typing it, like, things will come to me, you know, I don't know. It. It's fun to have it be different in different ways, you know, And I think that, being open to all these different ways also it keeps me from being anybody, someone who gets, like, a lot of writer's block, because I am very open. Like, I'm just open. I'm not closed off. Because I know a lot of people do struggle with. With you know, writer's block, but I Don't know. I guess I think if you keep an open mind, maybe, I don't know, for me, maybe I'm too open. But maybe there is no such thing as too open, right?

>> Speaker B: Yeah, I don't think there is such a thing as too open. I agree with you. I think, I think openness enables us to learn and grow and that is just super important. That's very high value for me. I kind of think, I kind of think writer's block is a myth. I don't know how you feel about this. I kind of, I kind of think, I mean of course sometimes I don't write. Of course. And, and sometimes that happens for a long period and sometimes that you could call that writer's block if you want. But what, what I think is really happening is like there's some sort of truth or thing that I need to face that I'm not ready to look at. I've had this happen with like in relationships where after a minute everything I'm writing is like, I need to end this relationship. And then I don'I'm. Not ready to do that. I don't want to do that. So I'm like, well, can't write then I guess.

>> Ruin Willow: Right? Not going write'going there today.

>> Speaker B: No. Thank you. but I also think it's a little bit of the difference between the like, writing when you're inspired and like writing with ongoing kind of craft discipline of like I have to sit down and get a thousand words today regardless of whether I feel like it or not or regardless of whether I am inspired or like have this flash of oh no, I have to capture that story before I leave my desk. You know, I. And I don't have a strict writing schedule. and I never really have. I'm partly that C adhd I guess, but also partly it's because I've never been able to make enough money with my writing. So I do a whole lot of other things right, Teaching and coaching and part time jobs or full time jobs, whatever. So that just sometimes doesn't enable me to like, you know, get to the computer at the same time every day to do the writing. But I think that like showing up and being willing to write things down is my responsibility as the writer. And like, The magic of it, the story, you know, that gets downloaded to me or the muse or whatever we want to call that, like is kind of not my responsibility if it's good or not good or like inspired or not inspired. Like my job is to show up and t the keyboard or I do a lot of handwriting actually. But

>> Ruin Willow: Do you?

>> Speaker B: Well, because a journaler for so many.

>> Ruin Willow: Years, like yeah, oh yeah. I was a huge journal like in high school and you know, I had a lot of emotional problems in high school and you know, my mom passed away and all this stuff. So I really turned to poetry and it really was huge for me. I was writing tons of poetry in high school, whereas when I had been younger I was writing little short stories and notebooks. Right. So that was a switch for me and. But it really was. I don't know, it really just helped me, you know, Like I'm more like you too. Like I'm driven to it. It's like something in me where it's. I have to get it out and I can work out things as I'm writing. Doesn't mean necessarily that everything I'm writing is memoir because I've had people come to me and think that everything I've writing is something I've done. I'm like, no, I'm still writing fiction. I'm not saying I'm not in that story in some way, shape or form.


What is too personal to share, what is too vulnerable to share

>> Ruin Willow: It still is fiction and I'm not going to tell you how much is real and how much is fake. Baby, that's too bad. You suck it because it's notn. You're not going to find out.

>> Speaker B: That's right.

>> Ruin Willow: That's mine to know. You know, that's min person. If I want to share it, I'll share it. Otherwise you don't get to know absolute.

>> Speaker B: Absolutely. And I love that we get to have those like, you know, boundaries about what we, about how personal it is. Like I think so many people think because we write about sex explicitly or think about sex or talk about sex all the time. I don't know if you do that, but I do, that therefore we like have no filter or you can, you know, we're so open about everything. Like no, I still have plenty of areas that I don't o yeah. Put on the Internet or things that are very vulnerable for me to share. I remember talking to a porn star quee porn star many years ago who said like the one thing I don't talk about is my personal porn preferences, like what I watch and what I like to actually get off to. Like I'm in porn and people watch me and obviously like I enjoy the porn. I do, but like I won't share. Like that feels private. To me and I was like, that.

>> Ruin Willow: Makes sen. Oh yeah'interesting. That's interesting because I just got right before this I actually interviewed a porn star.

>> Speaker B: Oh wow.

>> Ruin Willow: Tad Lal La Tada. Have you ever heard of her?

>> Speaker B: Yeah, I don't think so.

>> Ruin Willow: She's saw a lot of MILF stuff. She's bisexual milf and yeah. So yeah, she's definitely very sexy. But yeah, it just made me think of that. And so she did share some things she likes, but I didn't pointedly ask her that. I guess I just realized I asked her what she does, but I didn't say, you know, what are your favorite kinks in your personal life? Like I guess I didn't even ask her that. And some people will be willing to share and some won't, like you said, right?

>> Speaker B: Yeah, totally. And I think that's, I mean I think it's fine to not ask that. It might be too personal. But I also think, you know, it's hard to even think through what. But what is too personal to share, what is too vulnerable to share? What do I want to just keep for myself, you know. And I think as I've, as my careers progressed, I think I want to write a lot less about like particular people and particular partners and like this is the real life, you know, sex life that I'm having basically. I'm not'm way less interested in revealing those kind of things than I used to be.

>> Ruin Willow: Yeah, I mean I find it so.

>> Speaker B: Fun to like particularly the moment of writing about a scene or a night or a date, after it happens and then sending it to that person for them to read. Like that is amazing.

>> Ruin Willow: Oh for sure.

>> Speaker B: And then it's hard when I have a writing piece that I like, it's hard not to want to put it on the Internet or like share it with readers. But like, it just doesn't feel, it just feels too personal now, I think. Yeah.

>> Ruin Willow: Yeah. When you write specifically like that, I could definitely see that. Yeah. It's hard though because too like also if, you know, you want people to experience that. But yeah, at the same time it's also maybe you just need like a distance from it and then in some way.


Like separating the writing and publishing process is important

>> Speaker B: Yes, that is one of the things in my writing groups that we talk about a lot too. Like separating the writing and publishing process and even like the, the generating the idea, the writing it down, like generating words, the editing, the publishing and may and then even the performing if it's, you know, reading it at an open mic or recording the audiobook or whatever it is. those are all different processes. And until, you know, so many people get caught up in the writing of it. Like, but what if my mom reads this? But what if my fourth grade teacher reads this? What? My cousin, whatever kids read this. and if you caught up in that, then I think it's a different part of your brain. Right? Like you want to be able to be in that slow kind of tell all, you know, magic of the generating work. And I think if we're already jumping forward to like, but what if someone reads it? We're cutting ourselves off all during that process. So like, yeah, just write it down. Maybe no one will ever read it. Maybe it will never leave your notebook. Maybe it will. Maybe two people will be the audience for this piece and you'll send it to like the person it's about and you know, one friend who you really trust. Or maybe, or maybe or not, you know, but yeah. And I think the more distance we have from it too, just like you, what you were saying.

>> Speaker B: The easier it is to to publish something that's like real life stories. I've been going through a divorce, separation from a partner that I wrote about extensively online. And so I have not written a lot about the divorce. Well, that's not true. I've written a ton about the divorce, but I have not published about the divorce. Very, very, very little. And I'm still trying to figure out how to publish about it. And you know, right, right now is not the time. So that's the first answer really. But like, it's starting to get to be a little more of the time. I'm working on an essay for a queer divorce anthology right now. And I've been trying to figure out how to write about it for like six months maybe that I've been working on this essay. And that's. It's rough. It's a rough, like, I don't really want to tell the story of like. And then they did this and I did this and they, you, I filed paperwork, they filed paper, whatever. I don't want to tell that story, but I do want to reflect on my experience, going through a queer divorce. I think that's, I mean, part like going back to the very beginning of this conversation. Mostly it's for me to figure out what even do I feel about this. Like how I know how I feel about it is by writing about it.

>> Ruin Willow: yeah, I think distance is the answer. And then also I feel like if you're too focused on, you know, what someone's going to be thinking about when they're reading it. You're already setting yourself up for self for censorship. You know what I mean? You're already. Yeah, people need to get that out of their brains when they're writing because that's not going toa help. But you know, like it might be too soon to write it. You know, like I've had experiences in my life too where I think this would make an awesome book or awesome memoir because it was really crazy. But yeah, sometimes it's just not the right time. But that doesn't mean you can't write it in the future.

>> Speaker B: Definitely. Or, or you can write it now and publish it in the future or you can just like jot down an outline and write it later or fictionalize it in some way. Right. Like it's not like I can't have characters going through divorces or whatever. That's just the example on the table that I could put a lot of truth into having lived through something without it being my exact experience.

>> Ruin Willow: ###Actly exact.

>> Speaker B: Feel a lot better probably.

>> Ruin Willow: Yep. Oh, for sure. Yeah. And then, you know, it, there's two thoughts to it. I mean, you know, sometimes I think it's really great to write when you're really in the hot moment and the emotions of it. And also, you know that sometimes it's almost, it can be a different story if you wait and then write it, you know, like get different.

>> Speaker B: Yes, I think I tend to do both, but I don't, I don't think it's great to publish when you're in the hot emotions of it.

>> Ruin Willow: Right.

>> Speaker B: It depends. I mean and I did a lot of that in my, in the history of this website and the blog as they call so called blog. but I have learned from that. I feel like I just do it differently now. I don't publish right away and I take more space and distance. For sure.

>> Ruin Willow: Yeah. I've even talked to writers that have ah, like an unwritten rule with themselves. I write something and I let it sit for six months and then I look at it like I've come across people that have done that or you know, this one woman I interviewed writes, she takes a very, very long time to write. She's just very slow and so she's like. And then when I go back to revise it, you know, some of the stuff I wrote more than six months ago, you know, so it has sat even within the same book. Some of it has actually sat for that long. So.

>> Speaker B: Yep, There is something's much easier to edit when you have some distance too, isn't it? Like it's that everything just feels like such a darling and it's so important and I need every single paragraph and then when I have more distance I'm just like, what is this crap? Who wrote that? Or like, wow, this is actually really good. And it does, but it does need some tweaks. You know, both bothers.

>> Ruin Willow: that's the hard thing is like if you go back and keep rereading things and you'think oh, I wish I would have done this. I w alwaysish want to change that, you know, like it's already a book that's out there.

>> Speaker B: Like that is hard. I had a writing teacher say, if you're not looking back at your old work and feeling embarrassed, you're not growing as a writer.

>> Ruin Willow: So that's true.

>> Speaker B: That's how I have always taken that, I think. But you know, especially with self publishing, I can go back in there and change it and put it back up again if I need to.

>> Ruin Willow: I know, you totally can. Yeah.


Charlie says reading out loud is probably his number one editing tool

I ran into this thing where I didn't realize that two brothers fucking a woman was pseudo intest, right? So, so I put it on, I put it everywhere. And then the draft to digital people call it Contact I me. And they're like, well, you have incest. I'm like, no I don't. What the fuck are you talking about? They're like, you have a scene where two men are fucking a woman. I'm like, oh, well yeah, but they're not fucking each other. But apparently that's pseudo incest, so I didn't know this.

>> Speaker B: Scandalous.

>> Ruin Willow: So then I went and changed it on Amazon, but then I left it on Smashord, so I just changed the name.

>> Speaker B: I love it.

>> Ruin Willow: I can fix this, you fuckers.

>> Speaker B: Absolutely.

>> Ruin Willow: Take that. So that's something I did when I went back and changed something and I'm like, but I don't know. That is the nice part about self publishing. You can do that. And you know, sometimes I'll go back and narrate a piece of my own work and I'll find errors. Like I always find so many errors when I narrate it out loud. So if I can, I try to narrate it before I publish it, whether I'm going to edit that or not. Reading it aloud, and I know authors just read it aloud who aren't creating an audiobook is a huge good thing.

>> Speaker B: To do so great. It is probably my number one editing tool. or maybe number two. The other editing tool is like I'm. If I handwrite it first then typing it up often do a lot of editing when I'm going from the handwritten to the typed version. But that and reading it out loud and I'm, you know. So I have this online erotica writing group that's run. we're just wrapping up the sixth group I think and so started in 2020 in the early pandemic. And and it's been so delightful. Like part of it, like I was saying earlier, was about really wanting to encourage more queer people to just like write down their storiesus. They're really good stories. but part of it was also just like wanting to encourage more queer work. We erotica and sex conversations in the world. And it's gotten. It's gotten me so deep into some craft which has been so much fun. So the very last week, which is what we're on right now is putting all the pieces together, making one whole story, doing some edits if you want and reading it out loud is always, always one of the most. The thing that comes up the most for me of you know, if you. You'll catch so many more errors, you have to slow down. You know, printing it out and hand marking it up is also a big one for me. Just. It's just so much easier than on a screen for me. probably not for everybody but that erotica group is called Writing Spicy and it's Writing spicy dot com. there'll probably be one next year. We just are wrapping this one up. But there will be two readings from the students in the group, in December 2024. Som. I will give you that link. yeah, put in the show notes if u. if that's at least to the writing group and to the readings if it'll be up by them. But I'm not what the timeline is.

>> Ruin Willow: Yeah, I think, I think this is going to go live. It's either end of December or early January, but I can always modify it if you know, if you have a specific date to that you need. I've done that for people like if they have something that they need to you know, hit for one reason or another.

>> Speaker B: Totally. I don't have a specific thing. I am I will have recordings of the readings up on Sugarbh.net after they're done too so people can still watch them if they're if they don't catch them live. But they're so fun live. and I am doing a Writing Spicy, a three part version in person in Seattle in Januaryol at Charlie's Queer Bookstore, which is a really sweet place kind of nearby to me. But And there's a two part Writing Spicy. It's just going to be two short evenings through Wicked Grounds online. in maybe February. I'd have to look. I don't remember when they are exactly. but the info for that is on the calendar@sugarwitch.net or you can always. Anybody who's listening you can message me on Instagram or wherever and I can let you know that. Or check my social media. Hopefully it's all over my social media if I have something coming up. Sometimes it's not, but hopefully it is.


And then you know, we haven't talked all about like your courses and stuff

>> Ruin Willow: And then you know, we haven't talked all about like your courses and stuff. What kind of courses do you offer people?

>> Speaker B: That the Writing Spicy is the biggest one that I'm doing right now. and then I have taught a lot of DS and strap on classes and Lots of Power Theory. I have a course called D playground that's@dspayground.com. that's an online course that's all about DS that you can kind of go through at your own pace. I used to do that live. I haven't done it live in a while but I've also, I've also done one on one coaching with DS Playground. So that's been fun to take people through it kind of individually. and But I don't do as much DS code teaching as I used to. I'm doing a lot more erotica teaching lately which is fun.

>> Ruin Willow: Yeah, that's awesome.

>> Speaker B: But I do want to write more and get some more things published in the near future.

>> Ruin Willow: That's my.

>> Speaker B: That's definitely a 2025.

>> Ruin Willow: That's your focus right now is to. Yeah, sure.

>> Speaker B: Well, I have a workbook that's just about done called your year in K O.

>> Ruin Willow: Very good.

>> Speaker B: That is, you know, big. So you can write in it.

>> Ruin Willow: Oh that's cool.

>> Speaker B: And that is, that should be live. By the time this goes live it should be like few days.

>> Ruin Willow: Where will it be on sale on.

>> Speaker B: Amazon, on my own website, on sugigarbitch.net. ah. If you want a signed version. I don't know why you need a signed workbook but if you want that you can order it right from me.

>> Ruin Willow: Yeah.

>> Speaker B: and the digital. Hopefully more places than just that. The digital version will be, Smashwords and pushed out to wherever else it gets pushed out to all the places. Apple Books and. And Kobo. Is Kobo still around wherever it is?

>> Ruin Willow: Yes. Kobo'still around.

>> Speaker B: I think that's the one that's still around. But Nook is gone. I forget.

>> Ruin Willow: No, Nook is still there. That's Barnes and Noble.

>> Speaker B: Oh, Nick is still around.

>> Ruin Willow: Okay, well, but I don't know if they call the Nook unless they call Nook for the audiobook. See, I get confused. Cause I'm in both worlds. maybe that's audiobook they call Nook, but that is through Barnes and Noble.

>> Speaker B: Okay.

>> Ruin Willow: Yeah.

>> Speaker B: So it. It should be all around in all the places. Hopefully, by the time this comes out.

>> Ruin Willow: Awesome. Kitty cat.

>> Speaker B: This is my cat, Darby. She often steals the show.

>> Ruin Willow: Hi, Darby.

>> Speaker B: As it is in these zoom work from home times.

>> Ruin Willow: Yes.

>> Speaker B: The babies, the dogs, y all on camera.

>> Ruin Willow: I, love it. All over the all. There's the tail.

>> Speaker B: Yeah, she's just gonna swarm until I get hurt. Some dinner. She's decided it's dinner time. It's not. It's 2:00. Just to inform you.

>> Ruin Willow: Well, she thinks she's right. Right.

>> Speaker B: It's getting dark, like, you know.

>> Ruin Willow: I know. It's so weird, is't it? Yeah. Did you just.

>> Speaker B: Did you just knock my microphone out there?

>> Ruin Willow: I think she did.

>> Speaker B: Okay, there we go. I think it's connected.


This workbook is about reflecting on someone's kink life

>> Ruin Willow: So is the work. Don't mess up my ne, Please is a workbook geared toward, Queer Part Partners. Or could anybody use it?

>> Speaker B: Anybody can use it. U. it's just about reflecting on someone's kink life. So, like, reflect, plan, and create, like, some visioning for the future. So it's really kind of meant to be solo. It's not. I mean, you could definitely do it with a partner, but it's really about you specifically. Like, what are your identities? What are your relationships? What are your favorite things? Toys, kinks, you know, whatever. There's like, a bunch of reflection, you know, checkboxes of, like, what did I do this year? Let me check off a bunch of stuff. And then there's a big area in the back for, making a kink bucket list. Like doing some visioning and making a bucket list and thinking about.

>> Ruin Willow: Yeah, very cool.

>> Speaker B: Why do I want, in my kink life in the future? And I think a lot of folks kind of bop around and kink and don't necessarily Think about like all the things that are available and like, what might I want to do and what are some of the more important things or like, you know, like you can do anything, but you can't necessarily do everything because it's just right limited time and it'still real. So, so thinking about like, what are the really experiences I really want to have, and how do I make that happen? That's kind of part of the goal of the workbook. mostly because I wanted that for myself and I'm such a like worksheet kind of person that

>> Ruin Willow: Sure, sure.

>> Speaker B: I was like, well, nobody's really made a reflection thing specifically about kink. So what if I made one so I could do it?

>> Ruin Willow: Right? Well, yeah, and I think what would be cool about that is to like see all the options because like, you know, we have ideas in our head or we might think of something, then we forget about it. But to have like a list to be like, oh yeah, I forgot about this and that, like to make a point of doing, blah, blah, blah, you know, like could see that being very useful and helpful, especially for people who like to plan or people who just, you know, want to make sure they include all their stuff and live their best life.

>> Speaker B: People who do like to plan and also people who don't like to plan. Really useful to like do some conscious thinking about this too.

>> Ruin Willow: Right.

>> Speaker B: And I could see it being really fun to do, to sit down and do with a partner. Like, what did we do this year? You know, what were the scenes that were really memorable?

>> Speaker B: You know, with each other or with other people. Who knows? Right, Right.

>> Ruin Willow: oh, for sure.

>> Speaker B: depending on whatever configuration is happening and absoutely, someone is bound to be like, oh yeah. And then remember we went to that whole series on spanking and drumming at, you know, techniques for one or the other and like then someone goes, oh, right, I've totally forgot about that. I didn't even write that down, you know.

>> Ruin Willow: Right. Yeah, I would think it would be fun. Yeah. To reflect on it. It might even be like, you know, arousing and foreplay. Ish. You know, like be like, hey, why'we do that again?

>> Speaker B: You know, like, well, we did do this and this and this and those were great. And I would do those again, you know, like, absolutely. And then having this bucket list and being like, what do you want to knock off of the bucket list tonight? You know, can become a great source of ideas and inspiration and like goals, but also, I don't know, casual Goals. Like, I feel like a bucket list is different than goals because goals feels.

>> Ruin Willow: More like, yeah, you're doing this. But bucket.

>> Speaker B: List feels a little more like, wow, I got seven out of 10. That's great. I did so much, you know.

>> Ruin Willow: Right, right. And just like thinking forward, like, what would you potentially want to do on a wish list? Like, you know. Yeah, for sure.

>> Speaker B: Ye. Right. Maybe. And maybe there's some pieces as someone goes through the workbook about like community involvement or you know, different kinds of scenes or different kinds of relationships that they'll be like, oh, I really do want that kind of relationship or maybe I should, get involved with my local community more and volunteer or whatever.

>> Ruin Willow: Right.

>> Speaker B: Like, so hopefully as we're. As the questions, as we go through the questions, like ideas for, like ideas for the future come to mind.

>> Ruin Willow: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. That's cool. That's a cool thing that you got there. That'll be, definitely a good thing for many people, I'd imagine.

>> Speaker B: I hope so. I hope it's useful and not just m. You know, something that sits on a shelf, but like something it can actually helpful and Sure. I also think, you know, often people do year reflections like at the end of the year, but you don't have to. We could be like on an anniversary or on a birthday or, or I don't know, anything.


What are you working on right now that you can share

>> Ruin Willow: So what are you working on right now that you can share other than.

>> Speaker B: The work working on? Right now I'm working on the workbook. That's pretty much done. I'm working on the ebook version because that's a little trickier with workbook.

>> Ruin Willow: Oh, I bet.

>> Speaker B: I'm working on that novel to put it up on Theo.

>> Ruin Willow: Yeah.

>> Speaker B: And I'm working on the end of this erotica writing group and that's. And the DOR essay. That'most of it. I have some vignettes. I put up a bunch of erotica writing prompts on Instagram, a couple, like maybe two months ago. I'm, leading up to this group, so I've been working through writing to all of the prompts. I, I'm on like number four out of ten. So I'm. That has been my, my other goal. My writing goal currently is to write to the prompts, and then write some more of the dirty stuff that I might, might publish under a different pending.

>> Ruin Willow: Exactly.

>> Speaker B: That's next on the list. But there's so much. I mean, I always have little projects that I'm pushing, you know, One that's brand new, one that's like almost done and just like push this forward, push that forward, you know, try to get everything done at once. Which of course doesn't work. But I try, I try to focus.


When my dad died I was like, why am I not writing more

What are you working on?

>> Ruin Willow: Ah, well, I just finished in anthology and I actually just revised a story. Actually it's a full book that I wrote under my real name that is actually, it's more of a, I wrote it like before I started writing erotica. So it doesn't, it, it has sexy stuff in it, but it's not, there's no actual fucking in it. I just finished editing it and I started sending it out. I'm like, why am I sitting on these books? Like we're talking about books that sit forever. Like why am I not trying to do something more with this book? So I just finished that. So now I need to start writing. I have to decide whether I want toa read another installment in my Hotwife series or if I want to write the next one for the romanticy. So I gotta figure out what I should do. Yes. Yeah, yeah. Always something going on. Like you said.

>> Speaker B: How are younna figure it out? Just like what calls to you first or.

>> Ruin Willow: Well, well, I'm kind of thinking. I don't know, I'm kind of, My problem is to. I start too many series and then I'm like, I'm like go'split. And I'm like, shit, what am I going toa do? But I just got accepted at a book conference and book Eau Claire for next September. So then I'm like, okay, I guess I should be thinking about what other book would I want to offer, right? Because I'm going toa need some time and get things done. Especially if I'm going to do these installment things and then have a full book. So then I'm like, maybe I should do the romanticy. I don't know.

>> Speaker B: M hm.

>> Ruin Willow: But I'm a little bit nervous at it because I'm gonna have both my books under my real name and under ruin Willow at one table. So we're gonna see how that goes.

>> Speaker B: Oh, that'll be exciting. That's great.

>> Ruin Willow: I'm so be a disaster.

>> Speaker B: But who knows Table and everything. That's so fun.

>> Ruin Willow: Yeah. I decided I'm goingna bite the bullet. Do it. Because, you know, I was really not seen until Oct. Aug this year. I was anonymous. I did not show my face. I would show my body, you know, like, neck down. But I Didn't really show my face until August. So then now I'm like a year later, I'm gonna be like in person with all of my books and I'm like, geez, I'm just, what am I doing?

>> Speaker B: Coming out of the closet, doors flung wide open.

>> Ruin Willow: That's right. Ye. Like. And I don't know, it's just dumb to be hiding anyways, so I'm not going to do that. So.

>> Speaker B: Yeah, life's too short.

>> Ruin Willow: Life's too short. Exactly.

>> Speaker B: I feel like, I think it was when my dad died that I was just like, nope. Like I'm, you know, not that I was specifically holding myself back.

>> Ruin Willow: Yeah.

>> Speaker B: Because of him. That I would have thought. But like when he died I was just like, why am I not just putting this out there?

>> Speaker B: I don't know. Something shifted for, for sure. Maybe it was my own like mortality crisis, but. But I think it was more like, you know, people can opt in or not. Like even if they're my parents. Even if they're. And that just happened. I had a family thing a couple weekends ago, and my sister asked me a question. I kind of looked at her and I was like, do you really want to know the answer to that or should we. If you ask me, I'll tell you. And she goes, nope, I withdraw the question. Forget it. You know. And I was like, yeah, that's what I kind of thought. But like, like, just checking, you know, so like my, you know, some of my family knows what I do, but we stay out of each other's business in some ways, right?

>> Ruin Willow: Ye.

>> Speaker B: We don't need to know these things about each other.

>> Ruin Willow: Oh, exactly. And you know, they're not going to be your audience reading your stories anyway.

>> Speaker B: No, please don't be my audience.

>> Ruin Willow: But yes, please don't be my audience. Right.

>> Speaker B: And in some ways I I am glad that they know like my pen name and what I do because I also don't necessarily want them to accidentally pick up a book.

>> Ruin Willow: Yes.

>> Speaker B: And enjoy it.

>> Ruin Willow: Yes.

>> Speaker B: So there is that.

>> Ruin Willow: This is not intended for you. You know, I had a woman on here who was who did that too and her family was reading. She had two different pend name. One was more taboo than the other and they were all reading the less taboo one and so then they were trying to find out the other one and she's like, no, you do not get to read any of those under this. So she actually told them the pen name so they stay away from lim y. Do not read any of blah, blah, blah.

>> Speaker B: Yeah.


Coming out to your family can be tricky and painful

>> Ruin Willow: I'm telling you right now, do not read any of that.

>> Speaker B: Yeah, that's some trust.

>> Ruin Willow: But that is some trust also.

>> Speaker B: Like if a sibling of mine or, you know, my family member was like, don't go here. I Iire respect that.

>> Ruin Willow: Oh, for sure.

>> Speaker B: That matters.

>> Ruin Willow: For sure.

>> Speaker B: Total.

>> Ruin Willow: There's a reason right.

>> Speaker B: Right there. There's certain things you don't want to know exactly.

>> Ruin Willow: Certain things you're not gonna share. I know. I've worried about that too sometimes with the podcast and like, some people might like listen to it and be like, when. Then they find out later that it's me. I'LIKE fuck. You know, like.

>> Speaker B: Well, well, now that your face is on here, it'll be a little harder maybe to.

>> Ruin Willow: It'll be a little bit harder yet, but Exactly.

>> Speaker B: But still, it's still possible and they could binge a lot of it before they saw your face, I guess.

>> Ruin Willow: I know. It's so true. It's so true.

>> Speaker B: It's so sneaky to have to deal with the multiple pen names and like privacy that way. And you know how. And how to keep it.

>> Ruin Willow: Yeah.

>> Speaker B: Keep the right people from. To lead the right people to listening and leave the other people away.

>> Ruin Willow: Exactly.

>> Speaker B: One of those weird pieces of being like in the sexuality professions. That is complicated. I don't know. Makes me think of that. There's a book called Coming out like a Porn Star about porn stars who like. And coming out to their families or partners or whoever about doing porn. and how tricky that can be and like.

>> Ruin Willow: Yes.

>> Speaker B: How we can avoid it. How. You know, obviously there's plenty of people who would have a uptight kind of like, like moral judgment issue with it. But then there's also the like. I just don't want you to know these things about how I.

>> Ruin Willow: Right.

>> Speaker B: You know what I think about in that realm.

>> Ruin Willow: Exactly. That's my space, you know. Right. Yeah. M. Yeah, that would be. That would be pretty tough. And that's a question I've often asked some when I've interviewed porn stars. Like, does your family know? Do your kids know? And gotten various answers. But sure. that would be tough. Some people are, you know, no longer contacted their family anymore once they night. Like there was a, ostracizing and.

>> Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, that can be really, really hard and painful and. And also sometimes even for the best. As much as I, yeah. Hate to say that, like, but if someone's gonna, someone's gonna judge me for that. I'm like, okay, we're not going toa be close you, you know, which is kind of close.

>> Speaker B: Right.


M. M. I absolutely hate Facebook. I am on there, but I despise it

And at a certain point I kind of felt that way about like my cousins or whoever, my extended family on Facebook and like, do I put that I have a new book on Facebook and finally was like, you know what? If they don't want to see it, they can unfollow.

>> Ruin Willow: You know, they can.

>> Speaker B: They don't have to. They don't have to know if that's their choice. They're opting in.

>> Ruin Willow: M. That's true. That's true. Yeah, yeah. They can stay in their own lane if they want to. That's.

>> Speaker B: That's exactly.

>> Ruin Willow: Yeah.

>> Speaker B: So I think I like to aim on the side of letting people have choice at this point. But I also have m some filters on there, so don't get me wrong.

>> Ruin Willow: Yeah, I always worry about that too because, you know, like, TikTok and Instagram will just like take your profile and throw it in front of people, you know, which I kind of hate. I wish they would give you the option for that because I'm like, I don't necessarily want that. Like, you know, there's some things I would rather not. You advertise to people unbeknownst to me.

>> Speaker B: Yes.

>> Ruin Willow: It's almost like a violation. You know what I mean? Like it's.

>> Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. especially Meta, I think thinks it's. No, it thinks it knows what's best for sure.

>> Ruin Willow: I absolutely ha Facebook. I absolutely hate Facebook. I am on there, but I despise it. But I despise it because I feel like people just brag on there and just more of a bragging site than it is any kind of like, nice connection these days.

>> Speaker B: I have like a browser plugin that's called Kill newsf. Fed that. So like when I log in into Facebook, it doesn't have a feed at all that I can scroll. I can like go to individual places pages or people's pages if I look them up or I can go to groups or whatever, but I don't have like all the things people have posted. there used to be a close friends feed that I had that I kept that I did keep up on. They were like, you know, 10 or something people that I was like, yeah, I want to know what they post. But yeah, most other people I don't need to know.

>> Ruin Willow: Right. I don't anyone you eat for lunch? I mean, I just, I got too much going on to read a post about, you know, your grilled cheese. That turned out great. I Mean, you know, sure, that's great.

>> Speaker B: I mean love a good grilled cheese. But also. Yeah, I don't need that. I mean and sometimes I am scrolling a bunch and I don't have that on my phone. So if I'm on the Facebook on my phone, that's a different story.

>> Ruin Willow: right, true.

>> Speaker B: And it does, it's interesting because Facebook is like the people you know, at least hypothetically. Right. And that's a really different kind of audience to be talking to or people to be keeping up with and you know, TikTok or even Instagram that can have a lot of suggested things and a lot of people we don't know. Yeah, it'curious.


Do you think Blue sky is gonna catch on

And do you think Blue sky is gonna catch? I feel like it's on the rise.

>> Ruin Willow: Yeah, I did join I am on Blue sky and yeah, I feel like a lot of people are going there. A lot of writers are going there and leaving Twitter. So. Yeah, that'll be interesting. I don't know. hopefully it'll catch. I mean it's just really sad what's happened to Twitter but.

>> Speaker B: O. Tell me about it. Yeah, yeah, it really is. and it seems like something I saw recently about Blue sky was something about they've now surpassed Threads with the number of active users I believe so I think and it's more than doubled like tripled in the, in the last couple months. So I feel like there's a tipping happening right now with Blue sky. But I don't know, I'm hoping I'm hop it's the closest thing I feel to the like old school Twitter. and you know one of our fellow the O mates. I don't know what the word is for these folks. founding authorss M. Cecilia Tan was posting like yeah about how there's not really any other ah, social media that has like real time news updates the way Twitter did. And if we can get kind of critical mass at Blue Sky, I think that's the closest thing to recreating that, that we at least so far. I will see like people scattered to multiple places so I don't know what's go going to happen but I'm hoping Blue sky will be the one, the new home.

>> Ruin Willow: I hope so too. Yeah, it'll be interesting.

>> Speaker B: I think I have you over there but I'm gonna look, look you up.

>> Ruin Willow: Yeah, I'll have to check too.

>> Speaker B: Yeah. I'll give you my Blue sky to put in the, in the show.

>> Ruin Willow: Oh, perfect. Yeah.

>> Speaker B: Yeah.


Well, is there anything else you wanted to talk about before we end

>> Ruin Willow: Well, is there anything else you wanted to talk about before we end? I mean, I feel like we had a great discussion. I had fun.

>> Speaker B: Totally. This was great. It feels like chatting with an old friend or something. Like we clearly have a ton of things in common and m. A lot of writing, like overlap being similar writing experiences. So yeah, this was delightful. I don't think I have anything else. any, whatever is goings on for me will be updated on sugarbrich.net and there's an events page there that has. If you want to come to a workshop with me, writing. Spicy.com has the info about the writing group again. It usually has been running about once a year, so probably, won't happen until fall 2025. But there's a place to like get on the list if anybody listening wants to know when it opens again. and yeah, congratulations on all the freaking book accomplishments. I'm really excited to read more of them and we'll keep an eye out for the romantasy that's definitely in my genre.

>> Ruin Willow: Oh, you like that stuff? Yeah, yeah.

>> Speaker B: Do yeah, thriller, whenever that comes out.

>> Ruin Willow: Yes, that one was fun. I don't know. that one I actually dreamt.

>> Speaker B: No, I love that I've had a few.

>> Ruin Willow: Two full length wow. Dreams of the entire book that's happened to me and I have'only written one. That's the one I've written which is crazy to wake up and feel like you dreamt an entire fucking book.

>> Speaker B: Yeah.

>> Ruin Willow: What? both of them. I woke up and I just. I did like a page description of it, you know, and I know I lost stuff from the time I went from my bed to the computer. Like that's crazy. And I've talked to a few other authors that have had that happen, but that's just, that's quite the experience to wake up and feel like you've dreamt a book.

>> Speaker B: Yeah. Have I want to do that. I'll m. Just have to tell my subconscious to.

>> Ruin Willow: Yes, there you go.

>> Speaker B: Work out the books while I'm sleeping.

>> Ruin Willow: That seems great'get a download.

>> Speaker B: You like go to some other consciousness realm and then someone's like, here's the book.

>> Ruin Willow: Exactly.

>> Speaker B: I love it. I totally. Well, it's been such a delight to chat. Thank you. Thanks for having me on, for coming on and I will, stay in touch of course and send you some follow up links for the notes and yeah, I really appreciate it.

>> Ruin Willow: Awesome. Thank you. Thanks for coming on and I'm sure we'll chat again.

>> Speaker B: Absolutely. Yeah. Def.

>> Ruin Willow: Bye.
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