The Healing Power of Smut, Part 1: Mental Health and Relief from Depression with Tanya Cienfuegos

Ep 581: The Healing Power of Smut, Part 1: Mental Health and Relief from Depression with Tanya Cienfuegos. 

Part 2: https://www.buzzsprout.com/1599808/episodes/16836959

Topics discussed include: 

Healing Power Of Smut, Erotica Author, Sexual Wellness, Mental Health, Benefits Of Reading Smut, Writing Erotic Fiction, Censorship In Literature, Cultural Attitudes Towards Sex, Erotica And Horror, Subversive Literature, Self-Publishing, Female Pleasure In Erotica, Exploring Desires, Therapeutic Benefits Of Writing, Indie Authors, Erotic Fiction For Mental Health, Stigma Around Smut, Erotic Storytelling, Relationship Dynamics In Erotica, Erotica Genres

Summary:  The Healing Power of Smut, Exploring Erotica's Benefits

In this episode, we explore the fascinating topic of the healing power of smut with Tanya Cienfuegos, a self-published erotica author. Join us as we delve into how erotic fiction can serve as a tool for mental well-being, to enhance sexual wellness, provide a distraction and/or relief from depression, and provide a safe space for exploring desires. From discussing the stigmas around smut to the therapeutic benefits of reading and writing erotic content, we chat about it all!

Guest Bio:

Author Tanya Cienfuegos self-publishes erotica. She writes m/f contemporary and historical short stories.  She was born and raised in Southern California. When she's not writing, she's either scrolling through tumblr or playing solitaire.

https://www.tumblr.com/tanya-cienfuegos
https://www.bookbub.com/profile/tanya-cienfuegos

Links for buying books.
https://books2read.com/ap/nmjW2z/Tanya-Cienfuegos

https://www.amazon.com/stores/Tanya-Cienfuegos/author/B0BNGWKVHB

Chapters:
(01:30) Tanya Cienfuegos writes erotic short stories
(07:11) Reading can distract you, but it also makes you feel alive
(12:29) I think our culture is very shaming of it. There seems to be this idea specifically with sex...
(18:37) There is a strong connection between erotica and horror
(24:00) Not having a good enough distinction between, like Fiction and reality
(28:44) The only thing I get up in arms about is if something's abusive
(29:41) Do you ever write about kinky stuff or what kind of stuff
(35:03) It's a way to explore these things in a safe way
(35:42) So what, what brought you to want to include sex in your writing
(40:56) I do prefer happy endings over sad endings
(44:28) People have been trying to censor stuff since the beginning of the written word
(47:39) You've self published eight books altogether. What else would you like to tell us about your writing
(51:36) There's been a lot of criticism about Lucy's promiscuity in Dracula
(58:03) Payment processors don't want to do anything to do with erotica
Notes made with the assistance of Headliner ai

Transcript

Season 5, Episode 581: The Healing Power of Smut, Part 1: Mental Health and Relief from Depression with author Tanya Cienfuegos

This transcript was created by Headling ai and not edited by a human so it has errors. Please excuse the typos. Email any questions to ruanwillow@gmail.com

Copyright 2025 Pink Infinity Publishing LLC All Rights Reserved.

With Ruan Willow podcast I talk about sexuality, sexual wellness and wellbeing

>> Ruan Willow: Hello everyone. We have an amazing topic today. This is something that I see very frequently on social media, especially on. Lately I've been seeing a lot of it on threads, which I'm really liking that because there's a lot of writers there and a lot of people have opinions similar to mine, which I suppose could be the alogarithm, but whatever, I like it. This is Ruan Willow with the. Oh fuck yeah. With Ruan Willow podcast where I talk about sexuality, sexual wellness, wellbe being help people explore their sexuality and enjoy it. I have guests on who have ideas about how to make that better. Doctor's therapists, just people in general, personalities, writers and erotica writers especially. So on Tuesdays and I have my erotic fiction episode. So you can find my podcast on all the different apps and on video. You can find it on YouTube under ruin Willow podcaster substack. And I do have an extra one on Spotify for video so you can find me all those places. Also on the full SWAP radio, Internet radio station and pod nation media. I'm so excited to welcome this person and this person. I put out a feeler. I'm like, hey, who wants to talk about this? Because this is really important. I think this is a really important topic. We're talking about the healing power of smut heels. I gott to say it, you know, that sounds like a T shirt or something. Smut heels. It does.


Tanya CIenfuegos writes erotic short stories

And so I would like to introduce everyone to Tanya Cienfuegos. Tanya self publishes erotica. She writes contemporary and historical short stories. She was born and raised in Southern California. When she's not writing, she's either scrolling through Tumblr or plain solitaire. You can find her on Tumblr Atnyaian Fiegos and Bookbub and her books are on Amazon. Welcome. I'm so excited to talk to you. When you hear the word smut and you know we have all these different opinions about it, what does it mean to you?

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: I guess specifically it's like written, like sexual content. You know, like there's..n, and there's like hentai, which is its own thing. I kind of. That I kind of think of it as and. But smart for me like in my head it's very specifically like just like something you read or m. I guess listen to the. Like an audiobook.

>> Ruin Willow: Sure.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: I don't know exactly why it just clicks on my head. I'm just like. I'm so used to thinking of it that way because every, you know, it's, you know, it's like when you. It's fan fiction, it's like oh, we have some smut parts or you know'I've only ever seen that term, just used very specifically about like writing.

>> Ruin Willow: Right. And in other words I've seen you know, erotica, erotic romance, erotic fiction. Spicy, some people like to say spicy because it's less triggering for a lot of these stupid of logarithms. You knoweah we're getting these buzzwordds we can say or not say because people are. Are they're getting labeled as the bad words.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Right.

>> Ruin Willow: So what do you think it is about it that is healing?

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Well, I me primarily for like to start with it's all like just the fact that it's writing. Like writing has always been. I mean I know that's like a cliche, right? Where that like it's so good for your mental health and stuff to like write things down or just be a writer or whatever.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: But I think with smut in particular, it's like reading it and writing it is because it's so like specific. Like it's like. You mean in general, people read smut to feel like a very specific emotion.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Like and it's really cool that this can like this is like if you want to feel horny, this is where you can go deal. Horny. You will guaranteed to feel that way or they didn't do their job. Right. Right. Sometimes you're not feeling it whatever, but it's like this is the place you can go like without having to like. Hm H. You know, like think about it too hard. And so.

>> Ruin Willow: Right.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: The thing, it's like. It's like I have really bad depression. Like I've had depression like my whole life.

>> Ruin Willow: Sure.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: And one the way that manifests a lot for me is that it's a very like like numbing and like weighs you down to like the point, you know, where you're just like, you know. M. I'm really hungry. I haven't eaten anything all day. But.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: I don't want to get up to like make myself a simple sandwich. I'd rather just keep being hungry because getting up is too much effort.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Right.

>> Ruin Willow: Right.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: So I mean that's like the worst. Obviously that's, that's not like for me. So it's. It's very. And you don't feel anything. You know, it's like I've done other things to like feel better. You know, you do other stuff to feel better. Like you know, watch Funny movies or read like, like just all familiar things or watch like all you know, old TV shows that you. That you know you like or go for walks, you know, do some exercise or just hang out with people. And sometimes that doesn't work. Like, it's really just. You get. There's also like a lot of frustration sometimes of just getting frustrated with everything. It's like I'm just fed up with everything and.

>> Ruin Willow: Yep, yep.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: And that's like, you know, it's a toss up with that where it's like, like smut is like I know that I'm gonna like feel horny. I mean, except for like very, very few circumstances where I like that. It's like, you know, it's like I'm so depressed I'm not even like getting into it, you know. But the thing is it's like horny and depression are just two things that just cannot be like in this, in like my head at the same time. because it's like the fact that it's like depression is numbing and it's like it's we. It weighs you down, it's tiring. You know, it's like you don't want to do anything. You want to like just not exist anymore. Whereas like horny, it's. All of it is like sensation. Right. It's like everything with's like, you know, touch feels more heightened and you know, we want to touch stuff and you're like your. But you're very aware of your body and you're wanting to like it's energizing.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: So it's. They're just such polar opposites that it. That really does. It's just incredible that, that how. How well that works.


Reading can distract you, but it also makes you feel alive, right

>> Ruin Willow: So for you to kind of think of it like ah, an escape or in a way to like really feel alive. Is that how you would describe it or would you use other words?

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: I guess it's a bit of an escape or. Yeah, it's like definitely one of the things that it's like it helps distract you, but.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: In the specific way that it distracts. It's like it distracts in like a more mindful way.

>> Ruin Willow: M.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Because of you know, the whole like. Oh, you're, you know, suddenly everything you touch feels nicer or you want to like touch things or you want to like be close to somebody or whatever. Everything just like feels, really. Feels really good and you're like suddenly aware of like o. These sheets feel really nice and smooth.

>> Ruin Willow: You know, right like, like it's almost like a reset, right? Like it helps you refocus and it's, you know. Oh. It makes you more aware of where you are, what you're doing, you feel things. It's almost like a central nervous system reset. Right? Like. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like, that's kind of how I sometimes think of it where it's, you know, in that way it is an escape and it is a redirection and it's getting you off of maybe what you were thinking about before. Because it's, you know, sex is something where we feel really alive and it's just, it's so intense that it makes sense that reading, it can also bring our brains there.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: M. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So it's just, it's like a weird, like a. It's like a mindfulness shortcut, you know too.

>> Ruin Willow: Yeah, yeah.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: It's like anytime people are like, be more mindful. It's like. What does that mean? It's like, oh, just however you feel when you're like a little bit horny or make yourself a little bit horny and you'll be there already.

>> Ruin Willow: Sure, sure. I mean, that makes perfect sense. And you know, I think what, what we were saying too is just kind of like, a known like, fix. Like, you know what to expect, you know. Yet you may connect better with certain writers, certain scenarios, certain kinks and fetishes than others. But, you know, that's's. That's to be expected. But yeah, I mean, it's really quite amazing how people react to it. And it's interesting how people get so angry about it, you know, like why, you know, it's so. When you step back and look at it, it's really quite interesting. Do people get angry at sci fi? No. Do they get angry at fantasy? Know, I mean.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: it's like, remember when Harry Potter first came, the movies first came out? Everybody was. There were a lot of people that were very mad about that. Very weird people. Like, it's just, you know, a movie about a kid in a magic school. Who cares, right?

>> Ruin Willow: If you don't like it, just don't fucking look at it. That's what I don't understand. Like, they can't just stay in their own lane. Like, you don't like it, just don't participate.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Yeah, that's a whole long philosophical thing. I think that, to like go into like, you know, why censorship and like, what the. Like, what do people get out of that? And like, why feel compelled to do this? And it's like, it's like, at what point do you feel better? Like, is there. It's one of those, like a hole that doesn't have a bottom in it. I think, like, it's like, okay, let's say it does work and you get rid of all like the. The one. The smut. Right? And. But then it's like, did you really. Or maybe that's not like smut, but there's like this other thing that's like, smut adjacent, so we need to get rid of that too. And then you just like, we need to get rid of this other thing because it'll ultimately lead to this. And you just keep censoring things until there's, like, nothing. And I think that's how I. I think is like, what ultimately what will happen even if, like, which I really hope to never find out. Right? But it's like, if, like, you know, authoritarian, pro censorship people, like, got their way, that this is like, what would happen assuming that, you know, like, that would actually work. Because there's always like, oh, things like get through the cracks or people just like, start sharing things, like, you know, more secretly or like, it's not.

>> Ruin Willow: We know.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Find it.

>> Ruin Willow: We all know how. Well prohibition work, don't we?

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Yeah, exactly. I mean, it did do one good thing where it was like, you know, don't have, like, banking services in your bar. But that's right. You know, it's just. It's like, yeah, you shouldn't be able to cash your paycheck in the bar.

>> Ruin Willow: Yeah'that's a problem.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Yeah.

>> Ruin Willow: It can't be very specific. It really can't be stopped because people, even if they stopped publishing m online, everybody still has the copies of the books, right? People have it on their phone, people have it in podcasts. So it's not going to go away. In fact, usually what this kind of thing does is it inflames things, right? People want it more.


I think our culture is very shaming of it. Right. There seems to be this idea specifically with sex

It actually, inflames it. So what they're actually probably going to be doing is making it bigger by trying. Because most people like me, someone tries to stop me from doing something, I become more tenacious.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Yeah, that's. That was exactly like with those movies where, you know, it's like Christians are getting all Ben out of shape. It's like, these movies shouldn't exist. It's like, well, okay, now I need to see it because it makes you mad, right?

>> Ruin Willow: And what does it do for them? Like you said, you know, what does that really do for them? If that disappears out of the world for them. What does that do for them? Make them feel more righteous?

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: I don't know.

>> Ruin Willow: what does it do for them? Why do they care?

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: I personally, I think it's like having like. Like there is righteousness, but not exactly like I purge the world of this terrible thing so much as like I may have my flaws, but at least I'm not like one of those freaks.

>> Ruin Willow: Right.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: So it's like I'm just you know, being a normal sensible person because I'm not a freak like that.

>> Ruin Willow: Right.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: So that's all. It's like, it's reassuring in the sense of like their own reassures their own like you know, sexual hang ups or whatever. Control issues.

>> Ruin Willow: It's so weird to me too that they aren't attacking things like stories about serial killers and murders and war and death. They're picking the natural act of sex, which we were created to do.

>> Ruin Willow: So I don't understand. You know, I think a lot of it is our culture is very shaming of it. So then you know, people think, oh well, you know, this, this just isn't right. People get on their high horse and think. But you know, it's interesting. It's like I don't feel like I have to push it on them. Like I don't care if you don't read my books. Why do you feel like you have to come and push yourself on me?

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Yeah, that's like you don't want to read them, that's fine. There's plenty of other people who do, I hope.

>> Ruin Willow: Right, exactly.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: But yeah, so it's like I don't specifically need your money. I just, you know, there's other books that you can read that will make you feel better, I hope.

>> Ruin Willow: Right. And this is, this is what I mean, reading is for us to enjoy, to experience, to try out new things. Right. So why are people so worried about this is in our heads. Why are so people so worried about what's in our heads? Well, they just pay attention to what's in their own head.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Yeah, I know there's like some. This'like a big problem. Like I mean especially I notice in like fandom spaces, like I'm, you know, I got. I'mn toa disown it. It's like I write fanfiction as well, various things and I. That's basically I'm always that first. It's like I just I first I'm a fanfic writer and then I'm just like whatever erotica and and yeah, there's a. Like, there's just this, like, emotional immaturity, I think, that comes with it because it. There seems to be this idea, like, specifically with sex, as opposed to, like, say, like, violence, that, if someone writes about a certain act or a certain kink, that they're intending to act it out. And like, they're intending to act it out in, like, a very specific, like, unsafe, you know, toxic way. Like, you know, it's like, oh, you're into choking, so you want to, like, strangle your. Your partner to death? Like, no.

>> Ruin Willow: Right. No.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Like, first of all, that's not, you know, that's not how the choking thing works. You've got to be very careful about that. Right. Second of all, even if it's, like, sexy to, like, read about it, that doesn't necessarily mean that I'm ever gonna. That you, That a person reading about it ever wants to, like, practice that. It's like, it's a way to, like, that you can just explore possibilities and like, a very safe way without, like, one. Without having to, like, bring in like, another person to like, negotiate stuff and one just to like, m. Think about it. And maybe it's like, okay, well, I read about this, you know, okay, you know, this person got choked while they were doing it, and they came really hard, and it's like, okay, well, now I've, you know, explored that. That's good enough, right?

>> Ruin Willow: Just because we fantasize and even going from there, fantasy. If you're having your own fantasy in your head, just because you fantasize about something doesn't mean you actually want to do it. Some things we want to stay as a fantasy. Some things we want to stay in a book, but we want to read about it. We want to experience it with that character. We're intrigued by it. We want to learn about it. You know, to me, these are not horrible things. How about we get. How about we get really worked up and angry about things like abuse instead? You know, like, this is just silly. It's silly.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Yeah. I mean, there's also that too. It's like, oh, is like this kink that's happening? It's like, is it really just a kink or are they just being abusive? Like, really. It's like, even, like the worst, like, most problematic, like erotica, even, like, if the writer specifically was like, I want people to like, get really into this gross or this terrible thing.

>> Ruin Willow: Right.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: It doesn't necessarily mean that the reader'gonna is like, I sort of think of them, it's like there's a lot of parallel between like smut or like erotic fiction and horror.

>> Ruin Willow: Yes.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Like it's not just like scary things are sexy or, you know, not necessarily that, but it serves like the same kind of function. It's like I think of reading Swutat sometimes. It's like, even if it's for like a kink I'm not into, it's like when I read it, I think of it more as like, say it's along the lines of like going to a haunted house or or like watching a scary movie. It's like, obviously you don't want to get chased by a guy with a chainsaw.


There is a strong connection between erotica and horror

of course you don't. No one does.

>> Ruin Willow: Exactly.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Like, if that happened in real life, I would definitely like piss myself and came and run.

>> Ruin Willow: Exactly.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: But we still like pay money to like go into like here's this, you know, cheapo looking house and here's a guy in a like this costume and like with the sound effects and like, obviously this piece of cardboard cut in the shape of a chainsaw. Let's pretend we're just playing pretend.

>> Ruin Willow: Yes, yes, exactly. And I have heard this. Many other people I've talked to had the same opinion that, and I completely agree with it. There is a very strong connection and correlation between erotica and horror. It just is. And maybe it's because it has this titillating ability, this, this ability to like put us into a real mental state where we're like, we're feeling these extreme emotions and it's just amazing. Feel a liee.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: It does. You know, you watch horror or something to feel a very specific. I mean not, not always. I know a lot of people like watch horror because sometimes they're really corny and they're funny.

>> Ruin Willow: Yeah, yeah.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: But it's like it's specifically created. It's like there's go going toa be an element of fear. It's like you have to specifically feel fear. And I mean, obviously a lot of art is like that. Like, of course it's like you write a comedy to make people laugh, but it's not, I don't know, like with like, with smut. It's very like, specifically like if you didn't, didn't like feel a little bit horny after reading it, then it's like, then it wasn't well done.

>> Ruin Willow: Right, I agree. Yes.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Like people can be like, this is still a good horror movie even though I didn't get scared. Right.

>> Ruin Willow: Like, right.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: I went to see Nosferatu. Like the other day. And it's a really good movie. And like, you know, there's a lot, there's definitely was a lot of like sex and horror and death all intermingled and stuff and. But I wasn't necessarily like scared for a lot of it. There's like, you know, there was, there'd be like a jump scare or something. I don't, I actually don't even remember if I like if there was any specific thing that made me scared. But it's still like it was still very, a very good movie. Very good horror movie. It's definitely unsettling. So it's still doing his job even if he didn't do it in like the specific, specific way that say like erotica would do for like feeling sexy.

>> Ruin Willow: Right. And you know, so many people I've talked to also, they have liked erotica or smut because yeah, it helps them maybe experience something that they wouldn't normally be doing. Like we're just talking about or they know that they can't do. Like for instance, you know, say you're in a monogamous relationship and you, you want to experience or read about what is it like to not be in one. Right. Like there's so many or different kinks, different fetishes or maybe, maybe we just kind of want to explore one in our head before we think about doing it. And then I think that also Schmut does that for us as well. It kind of puts as our brain go through it a little bit first before we would consider do I do I want to do this Right.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: It's very cathartic. Yeah.

>> Ruin Willow: What brought you to want to write it? I'm sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off. If you say what you want to say and then I wasnna say really.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Quick that it's like horror and the other thing that horror and like erotica kind of have in common is I guess they're way more subversive than like a lot of other genres.

>> Ruin Willow: yes, yes, like are.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: It's people are. Do get very intense about kind of about both of them. You know, it's like you do kind of get a little bit of that whole like why are you so into these movies about a serial killer? That's kind of weird. Oh, he watched a bunch of like he had all these scary movies. Of course he turned out to be like a serial killer. And you know, I mean there's also like the whole violence and video game shit, so. But not as y. But yeah. There's like just this element of subversion. They just give all these. The emotions involved, I think, are just so. Visceral.

>> Ruin Willow: Yes, visceral. That's a good word for it. Visceral is a perfect word for it. Visceral. Primal. You know, like you said, centering of yourself, immersing you, just resetting you when you're stuck. Maybe in some other kind of thought processes or depression or anxiety or whatever gives you something else to think about and focus on, which I think can be resetting.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Yeah, absolutely.

>> Ruin Willow: O. I know, but the thing is, you don't get the people putting down horror like you do. Smut. M. Right. And maybe that comes from our stupid puritanical stain that is stained our, most of our country. You know, I don't know. I don't know what it is, but it's just. It's. It's. I don't know. It's so weird to me. Why are people. Why wouldn't they pick to get mad about horror? Like, this is like people hurting each other on purpose. Right? Is that not. Why is that not being poo poohed?


Not having a good enough distinction between, like, f. Fiction and reality

And then erotica is like, smut. Just like, oh, that's terrible. What? you know, like, it's so weird to me. Like, why?

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Yeah, I don't know. I really think it's, like, the issue of, like, not being able to, like, not distt. Not having a good enough distinction between, like, f. Fiction and reality. Of just really, like, obvious. Like. Yeah. With, like, a horror thing, it's like, if you're watching a horror movie, of course you don't want to get murdered. That's stupid. Nobody wants to hu.

>> Ruin Willow: I hate.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: True.

>> Ruin Willow: Yeah. Yeah. Suspension of reality. Sex is.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Sex feels good, and people like doing it. And, so it's like, this is a very specific act that people do regularly. And so it's like me, you know, it's like you wa. Want to act on these things even like that. So it's just. I think that that's really. Yeah. With, like, smut, it's just like they just take for granted that people want to do the things that they're reading about, and it's not necessarily true. And even if it. Even if it is, it's still like, you know, nobody's none of their business. Right, but that'sk.

>> Ruin Willow: Exactly.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: That's a whole separate thing, too. It's like, it is getting other people's business. And it's like, why do you care?

>> Ruin Willow: Right? Right. Why can't you just stay in Your own lane. If I like this book, why do you have to put it down? Why don't you just go read your own fucking book and leave me alone, you know? Yeah. I don't feel like I have to go around trying to convince everybody to read erotica even though I write it. I'm not going to do that. So why do they have to come back at all of us who are writing it and reading it and try to be like, you can't do that. You shouldn't be doing that. You know, like, it's like nosy people.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Yeah. I don't know. I actually remember watching this like, You know Terry Jones from like Monty Python, right? Monty Python, Holy Grail. Well, he'he was a historian too, so he did all these like really cool documentaries about like, you know, different periods in history.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: particularly he did like one about like medieval, like the medieval period. But one documentary he made was about like sex in the ancient world or sex throughout history. And there gets a eventually, you know, he starts from like the very beginning of written history and eventually gets to the part where it's like the Victorian age and the whole like. Oh, how Victorians were like super into archaeology and old civilizations and stuff. And so. And unfortunately, ancient Roman people didn't think about sex the way Victorian English people did. And so there'be like all these like really likeut like just like smutty like sculptures or like.

>> Ruin Willow: Yeah.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Pornographic paintings. And it's like this is in like a living room or something. Or it's like why is right tell in someone's garden and.

>> Ruin Willow: Right.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Yeah. And, and so it's like, what are they. What they ended up doing? A lot of times when this would happen. It's like the British Museum has I guess like a whole secret cabinets full of this stuff of just They're just like hidden away even now, like still, I think really you still have to ask to like see them. They're not like on display for the public. And you have to explain mysh, look at them. And I guess as he's talking, as Terry Jones is talking to the curator about this, you know, who's like showing him these artifacts. He that's kind of like this conclusion that, that like the British Empire perceived sex as like a threat to their empire, to the status quo.

>> Ruin Willow: Do you think they're like the root cause all this shit Victorians?

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: I don't know. I mean, just. It's just interesting that like some authoritarian things really. It's like really do Think of like just people having sex like the wrong way is some kind. It's like somehow like going to destabilize the status quot when it's like I don't see how it can. I really don't.

>> Ruin Willow: I think it comes down to control. They just want to control. And it's one thing that they think that they can do to control people. And if you're controlling them in a different way, you can manipulate something else about them and they may not notice. So it may be a tactic to bring about other change. That's one theory I've heard.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Yeah. Yeah. And it's like, it's really easy too because. Because of how weird everybody is about sex because it's like everybody has their, their hard limits. Right. Of like.


The only thing I get up in arms about is if something's abusive

>> Ruin Willow: Yeah.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: it's like I'm never going toa do that. I don't understand how anybody can be into that. It's nasty. So it's like you can tap into the sense of disgust so much easier with sex.

>> Ruin Willow: That's true. That's true. You know, but for me, I'm just kind of like, I'm notnna yuck someone else's yum. M the only thing I get up in arms about is if something's abusive, then that's different. But if someone consensually wants to do something, I'm.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Yeah.

>> Ruin Willow: You know, as long as everybody's in agreement.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Right.

>> Ruin Willow: Yeah. That they're truly consensual. As long there's no coercion or guilt or manipulation in any way, shape or form. I'm like, do what the fuck you want. You know, like it is irrelevant to me because I'm not going to yuck other people's yum. I'm not judge. I'm not going toa judge.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Yeah. It's like you can. It's like I don't want to do that, but.

>> Ruin Willow: Okay, exactly.


Do you ever write about kinky stuff or what kind of stuff do you put

Now, do you ever write about kinky stuff or what kind of stuff do you put in your stories?

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: I feel like that's really tame.

>> Ruin Willow: M. That's okay.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: I don't know, I guess there's a little bit element of non con or like there's a little bit element of coercion sometimes, but it's in like the old school, like bodice ripper sort of way.

>> Ruin Willow: Okay, sure.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: So that is a little bit of that. And I guess VSM is the one that comes up some o some of them. Or I think I have one where it's like multiple. I know I have one that's like multiple partners and.

>> Ruin Willow: Oh sure.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: It's like a, you know, just did like all three. Right.

>> Ruin Willow: Ye.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: One woman, three men. That's enough holes for everybody.

>> Ruin Willow: Right, right. You know, and I think there needs to be a gradient. So I think it's good to have all across because, you know, every like we're talking about, everybody has different tastes, so we need a gradient of, of it.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Yeah. And it's just, so it's just weird. Like I've been like, sort of, I mean, lurking and like erotica spaces like a little bit for a while or just, or When I first started signed up for Blue Sky, I followed all these like other, you know, erotica writers and they, you know, they have their own like troubles, like censorship troubles. Right. And yeah, like I'd read about, you know, some of the things that they're writing about and I'm like, oh my God, it's like I'm just like a square. I write the most boring thing. You know, they're writing about like, you know, like queer civilizations or just, you know, things that are like genuinely like actively being attacked right now. So it's like.

>> Ruin Willow: Right.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Don't feel like I'm part of that like whole subversive element, so.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: I mean, I guess I am, but it's still gonna be like a surprise when some, if, if I get, you know, somebody like bashes my door down and like takes me away for writing some. For some material. It's like I literally just wrote about like about a man and a woman doing stuff in various settings.

>> Ruin Willow: Right, right.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: So what is subversive about?

>> Ruin Willow: it's ridiculous. It's ridiculous. Is s what I have to say. You know, it's just fiction is not, See, get. I get all up in arms about people who think that fiction is supposed to teach something. It can teach something. But the purpose of fiction is to tell a story, right? Yeah. If it were only to teach people, we wouldn't have these villains. We wouldn't have villains ever winning in stories. A story. Fiction is to tell a story. And yes, you can learn from it. Yes, there can be great notable characters, but it's for entertainment. It is not for teaching. And some people get up in arms and think that, oh, we have to show a good example. Like, you know, you're telling a story, you're telling, a made up story. This is not nonfiction either.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: And it's very spec. It's, you know, also it's like very specifically like. Yes. When you're like Depend. It depends on the audience. Like, of course, if you're writing, you know, a, children's book and, you know, children aren't like, as emotionally mature. They're still, you know, figuring out the world. Of course you need to teach them that, you know, lying isn't nice and people should share and you don't touch people without their permission because that's me. You know, stuff like that and like your vegetables, you. Depending on how young. It's like that audience does need to be taught these things.

>> Ruin Willow: Yes.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Someone reading Penthouse Forum, like Penthouse Collection should already know, like, yes, don't touch somebody without their permission.

>> Ruin Willow: Exactly.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Like, don't hug things or Murder is bad.

>> Ruin Willow: Right, Right. These are known.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Yeah. It's like, of course, it's like the audience, like, if it's an adult audience, of course they have. They supposed to have them. M. Emotional maturity. To know that it's like something happening in fiction does not necessarily mean that it will happen the same way in reality or that you want that, you know, it's like, of course. I mean, that's one of the things, you know, people joke about that sometimes when they were like, watching like some sci fi movie of like, oh, wow, that's so ridiculous. That would never happen like that. M. So it's like we already, you know, we already practiced that. So, of course, why do people think that that suddenly is going to be switched off?

>> Ruin Willow: Right.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Right. When it comes to smart.

>> Ruin Willow: Right. and I get having that attitude towards children's books, but we're not writing for children. We're writing for grown adults.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Yeah. Who know what's real and what isn't. And that even if, you know, a character is, you know, blackmail their employee into, like, doing. That's not okay. Exactly. You know, they know that's like having an affair with my married boss will, you know, not do great for my career.

>> Ruin Willow: Right.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: They should know that already.


It's a way to explore these things in a safe way

>> Ruin Willow: Exactly.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: And yeah, I mean, they do, because that's a lot of times it's just about, like, exploring just what can be like, very bad ideas, but, you know, doingional setting, so wanting to watch the.

>> Ruin Willow: Train wreck kind of a thing. yeah.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: It's a way to explore this, these things, like, in a safe way. Like, what would happen, you know, like, if I did, like, have an affair and I, you know, or like, was having sex and my spouse was like, watching me have sex with somebody else or.

>> Ruin Willow: Right.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: You know, it's like, what? That's like, Hm, let's think about that. And then it's like, okay, well, that was fun anyway.

>> Ruin Willow: Right.


So what, what brought you to want to include sex in your writing

So what, what brought you to want to include sex in your writing? Was there a trigger or just did you just like it through time or what was that trigger for you?

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: No, I think in my head it'like at first it was like, you know, this, you know, I don't want. I don't want to sound dismissive, but it's like at ah, one point it's like this probably isn't. You know, that shouldn't be too hard since you're like. It's a specific like you know, outline.

>> Ruin Willow: Okay.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: So it's like, you know how it'it's. Like you can, you know how it'll work out where it's like this person and that person, you know, meet or get reunited and there's some conversation maybe, probably. And then everybody bones down and then we're done votning down and the end.

>> Ruin Willow: Right, right, right.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: So it's like in terms of like figuring out an outline and how like a story's going to go. It's like it's easy in the sense of like I know where the story is goingn to end.

>> Ruin Willow: Right, Right.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: And you can do that pretty quickly. You don't have to do like a bunch of character development and you don't have to do a lot of world building if you don't want to. Although there's really a lot of cool world building that does happen in some, some smut that I read. There's like really. There's actually so much like really cool stuff that happens in smut that people don't.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Realize in terms of like literary things, you know, this different. Y knowah. Like there's some. There can be like a lot of world building or there can be like. And that'll be fine. It's not going to take away from the story at all.

>> Ruin Willow: Right.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Yeah. And so part of me was, I think that was. That's like, you know, the technical side is going to be difficult of like, you know, writing something that is like sexy and doesn't sound corny, you know.

>> Ruin Willow: Yeah, Yep.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: That obviously is going to be difficult and it's not always going to work. And some, you know, some people will think it was sexy and some people won't. All that stuff subvers is like subjective. Right. But for sure you do have. That's like years but you do have like the one outline that you can just go back to over and over.

>> Ruin Willow: Right? Yeah, it's, you know, there'sn toa be sex but you know, that's that's the given, you know, there'snna be some sort of sex.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Yeah. And. But besides that, I don't know. Like I. Like I said, I got my start in like writing fan fiction and Yep, there, there's. I mean there is a lot of. I't know, just. It's something, it just happened that I started, you know, like I just like this, you know, story of like characters that I care about and know about. You know, having nice things happen.

>> Ruin Willow: Yeah, for sure.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: So sometimes I'd end up writing like I just end up writing. Not always like I. But that does happen to like I just, you know, I just wanted to see them happy.

>> Ruin Willow: Yeah. Yeah. For me the most important thing to write about in this world is love and interreations. Intimacy, sex. I don't. I am getting to the point now where if I'm reading a story and there's no like relationship stuff, there's no wooing, there's no flirting, there's no moving towards sex. I don't even wann fucking read it. I'm like like I don't even want anything to do. I'm like, what? This sucks. I'm not reading this anymoreeah.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: That's. I mean, yeah, I want it. Another thing too. It's like with romance, like the romance genre specifically, like you know, just Harlequin, I guess, specifically. But like the romance genre is like. You know how there's like that one rule, it's like very specifically that you have to have a happy ending.

>> Ruin Willow: Yeah.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Like that's the rule. And I think also that's part of why, you know, they don't get any respect because there's some like this idea of like happiness is like ple. Or stupid and.

>> Ruin Willow: Right.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: No, it's only like deep and intellectual to suffer. So if you're not writing about suffering, if you want to specifically write about people having a nice time, then you're just like shallow and dumb.

>> Ruin Willow: You know, there's enough shit in the world. I want my stories that I read to be happy. I want happy endings. I don't want to read about more horrible things. I do not like books that do not have a happy ending. I do not want to read them.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Yeah, I definitely like. I try to go for like stuff that does have a happy ending too. Even, even if it's like o. You know, okay, I know this won't. Maybe this won't have a happy ending. I do get really bummed when, when that happen.

>> Ruin Willow: When the bad guy gets it. Then I don't mind that as a bad ending. But you know, to me that's still someone's kind of getting their justice. But Yeah, I. Yeah.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: And I don't like interesting to see like you know, the, the thieves get away or whatever. Like nobody gets arrested or.

>> Ruin Willow: Right.


I do prefer happy endings over sad endings, but there's still some

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: That's you know, sometimes like seeing you know, certain bad things happen is fun and.

>> Ruin Willow: Yeah. Right.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: But yeah, I do definitely prefer happy endings over like sad endings.

>> Ruin Willow: Sure.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: So you know, so. Oh my gosh, it's so much in fandom, it's like actually really sad.

>> Ruin Willow: Yeah.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: You know, it's like people who watched Supernatural, it's like oh, these characters keep, you know, dying and it makes me sad and it's like oh this, you know. And then Doctor who. It's like they're always like dropping dead or getting Sucuckked into a vortex and never heard from again.

>> Ruin Willow: And it's like right.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: You feel bad or whatever. It's like. And they're all sadd in and I hate that. But I like, I like what. I mean not I haven't watched it lately, but I do enjoy watching like Doctor who. I enjoy watching like Firefly. And those ne won't necessarily have happy in these. They do necess you a lot of times have a gut punch.

>> Ruin Willow: Yeah.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: And, and it's unfortunate because you don't always like know if there's going to be one or not. So it's like you have to brace yourself when you watch something like that. When you.

>> Ruin Willow: Yeah, I. It's known.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Whereas you don't have to like brace yourself that maybe something bad is still going toa happen. Like bad enough that it's like, you know, you don't have to worry about that necessarily with, with romance. And.

>> Ruin Willow: It'S a good place. I mean I personally don't like to. I would rather not watch a sweet romance because to me it just doesn't go far enough. It's not interesting enough. but I do like the hea. But I'm not going toa sit there and you know, watch like a homerk or something like that. Like that's too sad. I want more grit, baby. I don't want this little candy coated. You know, let's hold hands. Like I hate the romance books that you go the entire book and then they've maybe kissed on the last page. I'm like fuck no. If you're gonna stop right there. I'm not reading your books. You gotta go into that open door and show me more. Cause I don't wan to go through this whole book and all of this juicy relationship stuff, for just a kiss. For me, it's not the full story. I want the full story. I want the open door.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Yeah.

>> Ruin Willow: Read and writing.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Its like you just want to see somebody being like. Like just want to make them happy and know that they'll be happy.

>> Ruin Willow: Yes. And I really like to focus on female pleasure because that is just really absent from a lot of literature. So for me that's a big thing. I like to write a lot of that. I always include that. Often my characters, their male partners will even prioritize the female pleasure. But they get off on that. So that's a really big thing that I love to do and showcasing because it's something that is missing from a lot of.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Yeah. So it's like, it's still stuff you want. There's still some. There's some wish fulfillment. There's still a little bit. But not necessarily in like the places that people think that they are.

>> Ruin Willow: Right?

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: So it's like that the wish fulfillment part isn't though like I want to have sex with my married boss. The wish fulfillment part is I want to come a bunch of times first with.

>> Ruin Willow: Right.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Yeah. And that's pretty simple. That's a dream that can comeruue and not not ruin people's lives.

>> Ruin Willow: Right. It's harmless. It's just like having a fantasy in your head.


People have been trying to censor stuff since the beginning of the written word

And this is where it comes down to again where people are trying to, you know, censor stuff. It's like they're trying to control other people's thoughts. Like if you really think about it, that's what they're trying to do. they're trying to control our thoughts.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Yeah. And it's just. It's so it's such a big problem.

>> Ruin Willow: It is.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: It's like.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: It's gonna be hard to like manage or to like solve it. And I mean. But you're never reallyn toa solve it because people have been trying to censor that's true since like the beginning of the written word probably. I'm m sure there's some.

>> Ruin Willow: And it's been around forever too. People, sometimes people act like it's new. It's like no, no. Been writing about sex forever. Shakespeare wrote about sex. Come on.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Yeah.

>> Ruin Willow: You know.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: And that's one of those ones that sort of cracks me up and kind of like make me roll my eyes too is like, you know how some, some like smut promotion sometimes will be like not your grandma's. Like, romance was like, grandma, go fre fit. Okay. There's some. It's like grandma was into a couple very specific things that I know you'd be outraged about. It's like, I know you consider it problematic now. Don't pretend so that's great. I don't think that's a great, marketing angle to go with.

>> Ruin Willow: No, no, I know.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Going the other way would be good either. It's like just like, used to read. No, that's not go going toa work outither. But yeah, the idea of. But that's. That's another thing too. It's like people always think it's like every. Is it every generation thinks that they invented sex.

>> Ruin Willow: Right. Right.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: I think that was an observation somebody made in the 1920s.

>> Ruin Willow: I mean, how old is the Kama Sutra?

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: God, no idea.

>> Ruin Willow: I mean, my gosh, that was written so freickaking long ago. And it's about sex.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: It's like, you know, sex and courtship and hygiene and all kinds of stuff. Right?

>> Ruin Willow: Yeah.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: You know, ultimately does kind of like dovetail into it. So. But yeah, you know, there's. Yeah, there's so much, you know, so much smut that's existed and. Yeah, I guess people have always wanted to control other people then because, you know, people. There's always somebody trying to censor that and trying to stop people from reading it or looking down on people who do, even if they're not.

>> Ruin Willow: Right. But not everyone's like that. Like, I'm not like that. I'm not trying to go around. Control people's thoughts or, tell them that they shouldn't. Do you know what I mean? Like, where do they get off thinking that that's what they should be doing? Maybe, you know, I just. They get off on telling other people what to do, I guess. I don't know.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: I mean, if that's o are, then, you know, there are some books that, like, they could read that way.

>> Ruin Willow: You know, that's what they need to do. That's their fix. They need to go read those fucking books and maybe they'll get their fix and leave everybody alone. Yeah.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Oh, my gosh.


You've self published eight books altogether. What else would you like to tell us about your writing

>> Ruin Willow: So what. What else would you like to tell us about your writing? We can find it on Erotica. Erotica. My goodness. We can find it on Amazon. Right?

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Yeah. yes, I have. That's like half of them are. So it s. I pro. I guess I've probably self published like eight thing. Eight books altogether. One of them is s. Like a bundle of another Three. so yeah, I guess this is the part where I'll talk about it. I've written like, I've written a couple contemporary and then. But my best selling seems to be some like Viking age sm, you know, sexy Vikings, like Take over an island.

>> Ruin Willow: Yeah, yeah. And primal stuff. Right?

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Yeah, yeah. It's great. Or I thought it was great. I mean a lot of people thought it was great. Those are exclusively on Amazon, so if you have Kindle Unlimited, you can read them, you know, for free, basically. or you can obviously you can buy them, which was also great. So all my. Everything is gonna be on Amazon, but my Viking, you know, it's. The series is brutal. Vikings take the nunnery and though it's like. So that will be just on Amazon and Yeah. So if you want to. Anybody wants to read that, like I said, for free. It. If you have like Kindle Unlimited, then Cool. gosh. What, else? Yeah. Oh like, yeah, now that I'm thinking about this, there really is like ways so much wish fulfillment in what I write.

>> Ruin Willow: Sure.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: But not in. But not necessarily the way that you think. It's like, that's not necessarily the stuff that I want to do in bed.

>> Ruin Willow: Right, right.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Another, interesting one I've written that this is like, you know, it's going to be across all platforms or you know, across like Barnes and Noble.

>> Ruin Willow: Oh sure. But publish wide. Right. Ye.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Smash word obviously smash word is ah, it called Rescued and Shared. And it's a romantic retelling of Dracula. And it's actually, it's not a full retelling. It's a very specific. It's like one bit because it's like. I don't know who else does this, but I definitely. I signed up for the Dracula Daily.

>> Ruin Willow: Oh like last year gota to get.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Those emails about like, you know, the Dracula books or books book. And I got very, very attached to Lucy, you know, the girl that dies in the book and.

>> Ruin Willow: Sure, sure.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: So I was very annoying about that. So it's like, no, I don't want her to be dead. I want nice thing happen for her because she deserves them. So this is like she's not going toa die. And also she's got, you know, her three like guys that love her unconditionally and don't mind sharing her. So. Because that actually was kind of actually a thing in the. In Dracula that you know, she had.

>> Ruin Willow: Like three suitors that like a polyamory or did they not go that far just as More.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: No, they didn't go that far. She picked, she picked one. But I know there is a famously aligned or a part where she's like lamenting that that's like why can't a girl have like three husbands? Why?

>> Ruin Willow: Right.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Why did I only have to choose one? And I mean there's there's been some issues where people kind of interpret that as her being like a slut. Which you know is fine.

>> Ruin Willow: Right? Which is fine.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Yeah.

>> Ruin Willow: It's also why choose right people are now calling that why choose instead of reverse harem.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Yeah.

>> Ruin Willow: M


There's been a lot of criticism about Lucy's promiscuity in Dracula

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: But you know, there's been so many like academic works that revolve around her that you know, Lucy's promiscuity and like what BRM Stoker was trying to say about sex when he wrote Dracula. And and one of the things that does come up is like how. Oh you know, Lucy was like, you know, sexually aggressive and so that's how, you know, that's why she became a vampire. And it's supposed to be a morality thing where it's like if you're, you know, if you're like sexually forward then it'snn end badly for you and it'but in the book that's not really how it plays out. That's how it always seems to play out in like Dracula movies.

>> Ruin Willow: But I didn interpretation.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Right, yeah, I did notice that. That's not. She wasn't necessarily promiscuous much as just like soft hearted and you know, just beloved by people.

>> Ruin Willow: That's really annoying that they paint her as you know, something negative because she has multiple suitors or even if she were promiscuous sleeping with other people. It doesn't happen to men. They don't do that to male characters. It's just B's.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: It's. Yeah, just I remember a trashy What is that one other blog that's like trashy reads or something like that where somebody point where they pointed out that in like you know, proper grown up literature, sex equals death and oh.

>> Ruin Willow: Geez, get over yourself, idiot. I mean that's what I gotta say. Frin. Get over yourself with that comment.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Yeah.

>> Ruin Willow: Is and even follow your own tongue and shut up.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Somehow even when the story doesn't have a happy ending, it's still there still has to be that like moralizing about like you know, being. It's like a woman being sexually active in any way is gonna ultimately lead to her death. So you know, don't.

>> Ruin Willow: Right. Because I'm writing different narratives than that. Yeah, I'm writing purposely different things than that because I don't believe it. And I think that it's, it's a bias that a lot of people put into things and I'm sick of the biases towards women and female characters. So I am purposely not writing that shit because I don't believe it and I don't want to read it. I don't want to put it out more of it out into the world anti that.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Yeah. So, yeah. So anyway, that's what, that's why I wrote this one smut of like very specifically. It's like one. Yeah. She wasn't like that. Like the way that you will interpret her in every single Dracula adaptation. But also her having her three suitors that love her very much and are willing to share her is what'sn toa save her life in this story because.

>> Ruin Willow: They all love it.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Like were like stuck around and like protected her and you know, it's like she got all three of their fluids in her first, you know, with the yes. That's like s what saved her life. Okay.

>> Ruin Willow: In this fantastic. Good rewrite.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: I like it.

>> Ruin Willow: This is what we need. We need to get rid of these old narratives that are just out there and we need more stuff. This is why I love indie authors. And they're putting this kind of stuff out there because they're putting stuff out there that isn't out there yet that the big companies don't want to do. They're scared to do it. They so which it's just amazing that the whole indie publishing has just exploded and it speaks volumes. People are sick of the old narratives. They don't want to keep reading the same stupid safe things or the same biased things. Right.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Yeah. I really like that. It's like so much more legitimate now than it was like oh yeah, 10ish years ago or even longer. It's just, it's not just like, oh, you're vain and dumb for wanting to self publish.

>> Ruin Willow: It's like heard I heard recently that about 20% of book earnings are now being earned by indie publishers of all books sold now. That is fantastic.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Yeah.

>> Ruin Willow: And I don't know if that's a true quote, but I did hear that somewhere.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: I sor believe it. Like, I mean everything that's gonna. That you can read on like Kindle Unlimited is going to be like, they're published through their Kindle Direct publishing. That's so it's all self published and.

>> Ruin Willow: Indie and ye ye.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: So it's like Everything. It's like just for the fe. You can read all these like self published things and that's all I read basically.

>> Ruin Willow: Yeah. I don't even, I don't even read the big, the big name publisher books anymore. I don't want to read them, I don't purchase them, I don't buy them. I want indie stuff too.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Yeah, it's great. And it needs to, you know, because yeah, a lot of people really do want that. You know, it's like I did, you know and my bio does say that I spend a lot of time on Tumblr and one Tumblr is people, you know, sometimes lamenting, you know, the like why don't we have you know, a fantasy series about a grumpy old woman and it's. And it's first of all the Terry Pratchett. But second of all, I'm sure there's some random person who's writing a fantasy novel about a grumpy old woman out somewhere. You just have to find her.

>> Ruin Willow: Yes, exactly. We're getting the stories thatn't we need.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: To be beholden to like traditional publishers or Hollywood or you know, whatever. It's. You don't need their permission anymore.

>> Ruin Willow: No, no. yeah. I always talk about this too. The first time in history really this has ever happened where anyone can create a story and disseminate it to the world. I mean we're living in an amazing time that we can do this.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Yeah, Internet's a lot of things, but it does do that one thing really good. It's. I mean it's getting, getting more complicated though too. It is because like nonsense that Amazon will do, you know like beying erotica in searches or you know like credit card company.


Payment processors don't want to do anything to do with erotica

It's like financial process, you know, payment processors don't want to do anything to do with erotica. So it's like even like At some point I plan to like sell my books directly as well. Not just through like Smashard and Amazon. Just in case.

>> Ruin Willow: Yes.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Just in case things get really bad and.

>> Ruin Willow: Oh for sure.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: But even that it's still like I'm gonna have. It's. I'm still having trouble like trying to find you know like the Shopify gonna be cool with the stuff I'm selling, you know, even though all they're doing is just handling the transaction and they're not responsible for any of it.

>> Ruin Willow: Yeah, like I've heard Shopify. I've also heard Pay Hip is another one that you can look into. Pay Hip? yeah. So there are some out there that aren't so judgmental and like, you know, going to shut.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: It's like now I just automatically assume that they're going toa be like huuffy about it. It really sucks because it's like. I know at one point I actually did like email a place I forget who what the payment processor it was. But, you know, I emailed because, you know, they said something about like, in their policy of like pornographic, content. And I was like, can you clarify what that means?

>> Ruin Willow: Right. That's almost subjective. Yeah, Subjective, Yeah.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: It's like. Do you mean like specifically things that are happening live with real, like, you know, live action.

>> Ruin Willow: Right.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Actual people and you know, like it has to be video or.

>> Ruin Willow: Right.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Yes, it's very tired.

>> Ruin Willow: It's subjective. That's the problem. And so this is where I think it gets really murky for people because to me, porn, it really is video of people. That's.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Yeah, video people is. Yeah. And there's like, there's subge genres of, you know, I mean, not, I guess, sub. You know, porn is under a specific umbrella. Right. Or we are kind of all in it together, you know, because obviously. But.

>> Ruin Willow: Right. It's related. I would call it related. I would not call it the same thing.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: And yeah. So it's like what exactly is the problem with if it's really like. I mean, I know from like a legal standpoint with, with like, you know, filming u, people having sex and it's all live action, it's real people. There's. There's an issue of like, can you be sure that everything is consensual and also. Right, sure that can you verify that? You know, everybody's like, of age and stuff like that. I know that'that's usually the one they go with and it's like, that's fair. Legitimate concern's legit.

>> Ruin Willow: I understand that. I agree.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Yeah, it's like, okay, you know that I could see why you wouldn't want to host porn porn because of that, which is like unfortunate. And we need to figure out how to be able to like verify that stuff. But.

>> Ruin Willow: Right.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: That's not. You're not gonna have that with written books. You're not going to have that with.

>> Ruin Willow: They're not audiobook.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: You're notnna, have that with like a cartoon. You're not going to have that withai. You're not going to have that with, you know, artists who just. Who draw like, you know, just like n nudity. It's like Right. Know that there's no real person being exploited here.

>> Ruin Willow: Exactly. The difference is fictit versus Real.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Why are they being lumped together? And that's the problem, that they're getting lumped together. Because if. Assuming that's even, like, the reason. But I mean, we all kind of know that that's not even it anymore. It's just like, no, we don't want people thinking about sex.

>> Ruin Willow: Yeah, exactly.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: And so, like. Okay, I mean, at least you're owning it. But I really hated that legal argument of like, well, we can't be sure if it's consensual or whatever. It's like, well, you know that it's consensual. And if it's a written book, you know, they're fake.

>> Ruin Willow: They're not real people. Like, what?

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Nobody's being coerced. And it's like, nobody coerced me to write this.

>> Ruin Willow: No, this is not, We're not even writing nonfiction. And I would even argue that writing nonfiction isn't necessarily porn either, because it's still on a piece of paper. You're not watching live people have sex. To me, porn is watching live people have sex. Whether it's recorded. It's two bodies in two real bodies.


Abst. M. talks about the healing power of smuts

Two humans interacting.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Yeah.

>> Ruin Willow: Not a made up couple. Not made up people.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Yeah. And it's like, fine. That there's, you know, stuff that you need that's like, there's precautions that you need to make or, you know, protections that people need, obviously. But that's an issue within that industry. That's not.

>> Ruin Willow: Right.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: A problem of porn itself. And. But, you know, people are lazy and like I said, they don't actually care about that. They just think that people shouldn't enjoy sex.

>> Ruin Willow: Well, I think they should. I don't know. That's. That's. We're alive. M. We're alive. We're supposed to be enjoying sex. We were given these organs for a reason. We were given these sensations for a reason. I always use this example. We were t. Given taste buds to not taste strawberries. M. What? Of course. That's ridiculous.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Yeah.

>> Ruin Willow: We were given these sensations because we were supposed to fucking feel them. It's part of the human existence to feel and enjoy this. And it's so healing like we're talking about.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Yeah. It's so eas. I mean, it's just. It's. Sex is very, very mindful. I know that some. Sometimes people talk about, you know, they're like, tuning out when, like the Abst. Sex and rel. That's Like a theult problem with couples is like.

>> Ruin Willow: Yeah. Not they're in their heads, not present or.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: And like sometimes like random things do pop into my head but it's kind of like I still think that's not like, not as common as people say or. I don't know, maybe it is. Maybe I. Maybe I've just been lucky where I. Where it just keeps me. It keeps me very like conscious of my body. It keeps. It puts me in like a mindful state. And so it's. That's really. It's so great to like read it and like write it because also when you're writing it, you have to be in sort of that state to.

>> Ruin Willow: Yeah. Oh yeah.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: I mean not, not completely obviously because it's distracting. But there has to be an element of horniness as you're. As you're writing and yeah, horniness and depression don't. They can't exist in my head at the same time.

>> Ruin Willow: And that makes sense. Yeah.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Or that apathy maybe is more like.

>> Ruin Willow: What I should be saying. Yeah, right, exactly. That makes sense. It really does. Yeah. I really like that you've talked about that perspective and this being a healing power of smuts in relation to that. So thank you so much for sharing.


Tanya Puegos writes erotic short stories

Is there anything that you wanted to say or mentioned that we didn't touch on yet before we end? I'd love to hear any other, any final thoughts or anything you wanted to talk about we could touch on again?

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: I guess I should plug my, my stuff again. It's like Tanya Puegos, you can find me on Amazon. I'm also active on Blue sky and Tumblr so if you still have a Tumblr you can look me up there.

>> Ruin Willow: U.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: I assume that there's go going to be in the description like a link for sure. Yeah. Because now thinking back on it, maybe I should have chosen a different surname for my pen name. But it's too late now. I right, there should be links in the description for people you know, they can click on and then you can bookmark it so you don't have to keep typing. See foot gos over and over again. But it's not that hard.

>> Ruin Willow: It's not that hard. They can handle it. Right?

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Yeah, you'll be okay. So, and I like I said, I write short stories, erotic short stories. U heterosexual, male, and female. usually one male, one female. I do have one story that's like one woman, multiple men and yeah, it's all sel. It's all self published. My, you know, definitely read my series. you know, brutal Vikings take the nunnery of Vikings, storming this small island off the coast of, England that only has a convent.

>> Ruin Willow: Ahe.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: so, you know, a lot of women that were very, you know, mostly all of them, their backstory somehow ended up being that they're like, too, too horny. So they end up getting sent to the convent to protect them from temptation. And it's like, well, have temptations at their door. So it's gonna be a test.

>> Ruin Willow: Sounds like, a delicious test that ends well. Well, thank you so much. This was amazing. I really enjoyed our chat and loved hearing your perspective. So thank you for coming on and sharing all of that.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: Yeah, thanks for having me. And, you know, just. Yeah, thanks for hosting me and like, it's nice to talk about this stuff.

>> Ruin Willow: Absolutely. When everyone can look down the podcast, show notes and find the links and get to her books and you have an amazing day. This was fun. Thanks again.

>> Tanya Sien Fuegos: You too.

>> Ruin Willow: All right, bye.