The Healing Power of Smut Part 4: Breaking Free from Religious and Societal Constraints on Sexuality, with Guest Chuck

Ep 590: The Healing Power of Smut Part 4: A Transformative Journey Breaking Free from Religious and Societal Constraints, with Guest Chuck

Breaking Free: The Healing Power of Erotic Literature

Discover how one man's journey from strict Catholic upbringing to embracing erotic storytelling became a path to personal healing and authenticity. In this compelling episode, Chuck opens up about how reading and writing spicy content helped him overcome religious constraints and embrace his true self.

Key highlights:
- The therapeutic value of erotic literature beyond mere entertainment
- Challenging censorship and societal control over sexual expression
- The disconnect between romance's popularity and its social stigma
- Navigating creative freedom in the digital age
- The importance of sexual wellness for mental health
- Understanding and embracing female sexuality
- The transformative power of authentic storytelling

Self-expression, self-care, and self-discovery are an important part of healthy mental health and sexual health. Sexual health IS a part of mental health.

The conversation delves deep into the complexities of modern attitudes toward sexuality, personal freedom, and self-expression, while addressing the challenges faced by creators in more conservative communities.

Ready to challenge your perspectives on erotic literature and personal freedom? Listen to this thought-provoking episode that bridges the gap between sexuality, storytelling, and self-discovery.

Key Takeaways:

• Writing erotic content can be a transformative and healing experience, providing meaningful substance beyond just gratuitous sex.

• Love, romance, and sexuality are natural and essential parts of the human experience that should not be suppressed or controlled.

• Navigating societal norms, personal desires, and creative freedom, especially on online publishing platforms, can be complex.

Shownotes by Cleanoice ai.

Ruan's Upcoming Release, an Open Door Romantasy Deception's Snare:

https://books.ruanwillowauthor.com/deceptionssnare

Transcript

Season 5, Episode 59: The Healing Power of Smut, Part 4: Breaking Free from Religious and Societal Constraints on Sexuality, with Guest Chuck.

This transcript was NOT edited by a human so it contains errors. Please email your questions on it to ruanwillow@gmail.com

This transcript was created by Cleanvoice ai

Copyright 2025 Pink Infinity Publishing, LLC, All Rights Reserved.

00:00:00 SPEAKER_00
Hello, everyone. I'm super excited to talk with this person. I have another guest on and we're continuing on the series where we're talking about the healing power of smut, whether you want to call it smut, erotica, open door, spicy content. You know, just there's so many different words for it. And most of the time it's referring to the type of content in the story that is leaking to have some sort of sex involved with it. So we're talking about. reading it and writing it and how that impacts us or writing or life or whatever the guest wants to talk about. And so I am really excited. This is Ruan Willow with the Oh Fuck Yeah with Ruin Willow podcast. And today I am talking to Chuck. Welcome, Chuck.

00:00:48 SPEAKER_04
Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

00:00:50 SPEAKER_00
Yes, I'm excited to talk with you now. I put out a feeler and wanted to talk about this topic because it's kind of all over the social media. And some people are bashing it. Some people are loving on it. Where do you lie within the healing power of smut, reading it and writing it? What's your take on it?

00:01:13 SPEAKER_04
Oh, for me, it was very, not only healing, it was enlightening.

00:01:20 SPEAKER_03
I mean, I spent... You know,

00:01:23 SPEAKER_04
when you spend your majority of your life being ruled and following the rules of the Catholic Church. And then all of a sudden, you know, I was the first time I was exposed to it. I was actually in a hospital. I was sitting there for two weeks recovering from surgery and I had nothing better to do. And lo and behold, I found Twitter.

00:01:52 SPEAKER_00
Oh, yes. And that introduced me to things. And then I remember one of the first books I read was yours.

00:01:54 SPEAKER_04
that introduced me to things. And then I remember one of the first books I read was yours. Ruins Cabin Getaway, if I remember. Oh, yes.

00:02:05 SPEAKER_00
Oh, yes. That one's definitely very smutty.

00:02:08 SPEAKER_04
But, you know, it wasn't just smutty. And I think for me, that's what's important.

00:02:15 SPEAKER_04
Because the authors that I read, they're telling stories, too. Yeah. My bachelor's degree is in English literature.

00:02:25 SPEAKER_03
Oh, okay.

00:02:26 SPEAKER_04
okay. So I love to read anyways.

00:02:28 SPEAKER_03
But I want to read something that's got some substance to it.

00:02:29 SPEAKER_04
want to read something that's got some substance to it. You know, I mean, you know, some of the stuff out there now where it's, you know, five or six pages and that's basically all it is, is sex. Yeah. It's building me as much as a real, somebody, an author spent time building a story.

00:02:49 SPEAKER_02
Yeah, some sort of context.

00:02:49 SPEAKER_04
sort of context. It just happened to include erotica.

00:02:55 SPEAKER_04
So that's what it was. You know, it was very enlightening for me. A lot of things I didn't know about.

00:03:05 SPEAKER_03
A lot of things I never tried.

00:03:06 SPEAKER_04
lot of things I never tried. I mean, I still have it. My wife was quite also strict Catholic, so. Okay. Yeah, so it was, you know, it's opened me up to a lot of different things.

00:03:23 SPEAKER_04
opened me up to a lot of different things. Made me up to a lot of different things about myself that I didn't know. Oh, for sure. And it's been educational, really.

00:03:31 SPEAKER_03
for sure.

00:03:34 SPEAKER_04
And I'm sure most people out there, like you said, are bashing it on whatever format they can on social media. And goodness knows our... President climate in our country is attacking everything that they can in regards to being sexually free.

00:03:51 SPEAKER_00
Oh, yeah, absolutely. You know, and to me, it's that's being human. And so basically, if people are trying to shut that down, they're basically asking us to not be human. And that's not I don't think that's the way we're meant to live. I really don't. I think that that is BS. And, you know, we wouldn't. If we weren't supposed to feel these things, we wouldn't have the nerves there. We wouldn't have the sensations, right? It just doesn't make sense. It's not logical to think that we're not supposed to feel this. It's not even logical.

00:04:17 SPEAKER_01
just doesn't

00:04:25 SPEAKER_04
No, it doesn't make any. When you get past the indoctrination, and as I have learned the last few years,

00:04:35 SPEAKER_04
I have learned the last few years, especially once COVID hit, It's the aspect of control. Yes.

00:04:46 SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I think that is very true.

00:04:51 SPEAKER_04
Yeah, they want to, you know, more and more, they want to control everything that we see and do and read and whatnot. And I'm sorry, but I'll go to the island by myself somewhere. That's the case. That ain't happening. I mean. That's not what our country was founded on.

00:05:14 SPEAKER_04
It's unfortunate that we're still such a puritanical society. It's really mind -boggling that we're still this way in the 21st century.

00:05:27 SPEAKER_00
I agree. It's interesting because I was just reading on threads and someone was saying how romance, even romance, even without sex in it. is like the top seller of all time, right? And yet people are bashing that too. So they bash romance, and then people will bash any romance that has any kind of sex in it. And it's just really interesting. It's like, have these people not, do they not see that it's actually carrying everything else? Financially, it is the biggest seller. So why are we bashing it? And besides, in my opinion, love is the best thing to write about in the world. Why in the world would we bash love? Again, it's not logical. It makes no sense. Makes no sense at all.

00:06:12 SPEAKER_04
it's not logical. It makes no sense. Makes no sense at all. But the powers that be in our world nowadays don't exactly make sense.

00:06:19 SPEAKER_04
powers that be in our world nowadays don't exactly make sense.

00:06:23 SPEAKER_00
No, that's true. That's true. They don't make sense. interesting though talking to people from other countries and how they're different and they're kind of watching us like you know it seems like a lot of people are watching us going like oh my gosh you know what and what is going on over there like it's yeah yeah it's it's there's a well and they're freaked out they're scared and i don't blame them for being scared we're a little scared of what's going to happen to be honest right you know i live in the midwest where

00:06:37 SPEAKER_04
like it's

00:06:40 SPEAKER_04
it's it's there's a well and they're freaked out they're scared and i don't blame them for being scared we're

00:06:46 SPEAKER_01
i don't

00:06:49 SPEAKER_04
a little scared of what's going to happen to be honest right you know i live in the midwest where You know, most everybody around me is not open -minded like I am. And so, especially not my mother. Anyways.

00:07:12 SPEAKER_04
But, you know, that's the bad part. You have to hide your own desires under a cloak.

00:07:24 SPEAKER_04
And you can't be your true self around. Where I live, I can't be my true self. If I was my true self, these people would absolutely, they'd probably burn me at the stake is probably what they'd do.

00:07:37 SPEAKER_00
And I always hear the quote,

00:07:37 SPEAKER_04
I always

00:07:38 SPEAKER_00
the quote, like people talk about, you know, we really were taught to be scared of the witches and we should have been scared of the people who burn the witches.

00:07:45 SPEAKER_04
Exactly. Not the witches.

00:07:46 SPEAKER_00
Not the witches.

00:07:47 SPEAKER_04
Exactly.

00:07:49 SPEAKER_00
They're burning people, like, you know, because they're different.

00:07:53 SPEAKER_04
Look at the Inquisition.

00:07:56 SPEAKER_00
You know, in talking about banning things, it's like, look at Prohibition. That didn't work. You know, it actually flamed it, right? So, like, if they think that they're going to stop Veronica or his romance, they're really just flaming it. They're making it bigger. It's going to backfire.

00:08:14 SPEAKER_04
Oh, yeah. It's going to completely backfire on him before it's all said and done.

00:08:21 SPEAKER_00
and it's not going to go away we still have the internet and people have books like you know people have books in their homes they have things on their devices you know it's silly it's silly i just i wonder how hardcore places where you publish like amazon and other places like that are going to get because right now indie indie authors have a pretty

00:08:32 SPEAKER_04
just i wonder how hardcore places

00:08:36 SPEAKER_04
where you publish like amazon and other places like that are going to get because right now

00:08:42 SPEAKER_03
right now indie

00:08:46 SPEAKER_04
authors have a

00:08:49 SPEAKER_04
pretty pretty okay on on on amazon for what i can tell i mean i buy most of your stuff either directly from you or from on smash words because you can't get you can't get the kind of stuff that's on smash words on amazon right that's the that is the nice part that that smash words exist because you can have more taboo things over there and they're okay with that so it's nice that we have that and i always think too it's like

00:09:07 SPEAKER_00
that's the that is the nice part that that smash words exist because you can have more taboo things over there and they're okay with that so it's nice that we have that and i always think too it's like You know, Amazon is making money on this stuff. You know, are they really going to ban it? I mean, I don't.

00:09:24 SPEAKER_04
I don't. They've got to be making money hand over fist on authors. I mean, seriously. I mean, you would know that far better than me because I will probably never, ever put anything on Amazon. I've started up my sub stack again, and that's where I'm going to start things out there again. And, you know, if I got to. you know, I'm still debating where I even charge for it because, you know.

00:09:51 SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it's kind of hard to know. And I feel like they funneled me into something when I did it. And I don't know how that, I don't even remember how that happened, but I don't know. Yeah. It's hard to know. But, you know, Substack is a nice form as well because they aren't as restrictive. They're not as hyper, you know, like some of these other ones are really hyper and they're just, I don't know. I feel like there's more censorship.

00:10:14 SPEAKER_04
like there's more censorship. I put a few things on Medium when I first started writing, and then I didn't care for Medium. I don't know what they were doing, but it didn't make a lot of sense after a little while.

00:10:28 SPEAKER_00
Yeah, they kind of shifted a little bit. They were different, and then they were starting to kick people off. There was kind of like a really bad era, but I haven't heard of that happening since. So maybe they've realized perhaps maybe they did the wrong thing because, you know, and I really don't publish there as much as I used to, you know, because it's just not as lucrative. It's not. I don't see the huge benefit.

00:10:54 SPEAKER_04
benefit. In the end, you know, it's a business for you, not only because you enjoy it. It's also a business. It's how you make your living and you got to. All right. But, you know, I've told.

00:11:10 SPEAKER_04
creators on only fans and places like that look you got to remember you're a commodity right don't give it away right and they're in control of it which i think i think that bugs the people in power too is that they're actually it's actually they're controlling it and they're not being uh they're if they're choosing to be objectified they're choosing it on their own no one else is doing it to them they like it better when they're doing it to them

00:11:21 SPEAKER_00
they're in control of it which i think i think that bugs the people in power too is that they're actually it's

00:11:25 SPEAKER_04
actually it's

00:11:26 SPEAKER_00
actually they're controlling it and they're not being uh they're if they're choosing to be objectified they're choosing it on their own no one else is doing it to them they like it better when they're doing it to them Like, you know, they want to be the ones in control. They want to be the ones putting it out there. And so I am all for people who want to do OnlyFans because I'm like, you go, that's your body. You do what you want. You're in charge.

00:11:33 SPEAKER_01
one else

00:11:52 SPEAKER_00
It's an empowerment thing.

00:11:56 SPEAKER_03
Exactly. Now, I don't ever plan on doing the OnlyFans because... But...

00:12:04 SPEAKER_04
Or even putting stories out there. I've seen where some people do stories on there too.

00:12:09 SPEAKER_02
Okay.

00:12:12 SPEAKER_04
Yeah. So I, I think after my break away from writing, I've kind of figured out the way I want to go again.

00:12:15 SPEAKER_04
think after my break away from writing, I've kind of figured out the way I want to go again. So I'm really,

00:12:22 SPEAKER_04
I read one author that really caught my attention on medium, Kate Granger. Oh yeah. I know her name.

00:12:31 SPEAKER_00
her name.

00:12:32 SPEAKER_04
Her book, her story, Kate Educates Jacob, introduced me to an FLR. And I found that very fascinating.

00:12:43 SPEAKER_02
Very good.

00:12:45 SPEAKER_04
I'm not saying it's for me. Yeah. Necessarily. But that dynamic of, you know, it's almost like it reminds me a lot of the dynamic between a queen and her knight. Oh, sure. I've heard discussed that word once. And that's. I mean, I guess I can romanticize it all I want, but that's something, someplace I want to go with my writing is take it back there. Sure, sure. I don't see many people writing like that.

00:13:15 SPEAKER_04
that. Right. Writing about that time period, so.

00:13:20 SPEAKER_00
That's true. So, you know, that, yeah, I mean, that could be something you could try out and see, you know, if there's an interest in it, for sure.

00:13:26 SPEAKER_04
it,

00:13:29 SPEAKER_04
Exactly. i mean the first few i short stories i wrote were okay it just didn't in the end it just didn't just didn't do much for me personally i was looking at stuff and it's like you know what i need to figure out because in the end it's for me right like you said about the healing power of of writing and reading erotica but you know it's

00:13:43 SPEAKER_01
was looking

00:13:48 SPEAKER_03
in the end it's for me right

00:13:52 SPEAKER_03
you said

00:13:52 SPEAKER_04
about the healing power of of writing and reading erotica but you know it's For me, the healing of it's been, you know, I lived for such a long time in a bad marriage. And then when I got out of it, I'm getting out of it. I've been out of it for a while, but not completely. But, you know, I'm learning that, you know, what was going on in my marriage was not right. Right. Very destructive.

00:14:24 SPEAKER_02
That's not good.

00:14:24 SPEAKER_04
not good. Ironically, erotica taught me a lot about that.

00:14:28 SPEAKER_02
Mm -hmm.

00:14:29 SPEAKER_04
People wouldn't think that, but it hits everybody in a different way, I think.

00:14:37 SPEAKER_00
Mm -hmm. And I think a lot of it does also include consent and communication. People who kind of bash it don't really probably understand that. And it's like you could tell them, but that doesn't mean they're really going to get it, right? I don't understand.

00:14:50 SPEAKER_04
like you could tell them, but that doesn't

00:14:56 SPEAKER_04
My wife never understood it for a second. She's like, you just need a pushover for a wife. I'm like, no, that's not it at all. I don't understand. Right.

00:15:09 SPEAKER_00
And it's hard to make someone understand, especially if they're not going to. really try to understand. There's this big roadblock of them not even wanting to try or just shutting down and be like, no, I'm not even going to talk about that. They have their opinions and they're not listening to anything else.

00:15:25 SPEAKER_04
Yeah, they're just closed off and that's the end of it. At this point in my life, I mean, that's the last thing in the world I want. I mean, I'm 55. I ain't got a whole lot of time left on this planet, so you know. I'm going to have some fun while I still can.

00:15:43 SPEAKER_00
Yeah. And it's interesting. All the people I've talked to about this particular topic in this series so far have all been people who've been around midlife age and everybody kind of has a similar story where they feel like they were controlled. They were limited. They were shamed. And then they got to midlife and they started to realize, wait a minute, I don't have to listen to that. I don't have to live this way. Yeah.

00:16:09 SPEAKER_04
Everybody calls it a midlife crisis. I never saw it as a crisis. I saw it as an awakening is what I saw. Yeah,

00:16:15 SPEAKER_00
Yeah, that's a better word for it, for sure. Yeah,

00:16:18 SPEAKER_04
Yeah, I mean, I just finally let the scales, to use an athlete Bible term, I let the scales fall away from my eyes. And it's like, you know, geez, there's a whole bunch of people out here who are...

00:16:36 SPEAKER_03
people out here who are...

00:16:40 SPEAKER_03
thinking, doing differently than I've been raised.

00:16:42 SPEAKER_04
than I've been raised. It's like, it's interesting. I want to know more about it.

00:16:51 SPEAKER_00
And, you know, there are people all over, like, you know, it's just more obvious, I think, in different parts of that country. Like, it seems like the people on the coast are a little bit more open. There's a little bit more knowledge of that. Whereas in the more in the Midwest, there still are people there, but they're harder to find. They may be hidden. But they are they are there. It's just it's not as well known.

00:17:10 SPEAKER_04
they are they are there. It's just it's not as

00:17:14 SPEAKER_04
I lived in northern Virginia for several years with my wife. Yeah, you're right about that. It's much more open minded. Although they're doing their best to try to shut that down, too. But, you know, it's a different it was a different environment for sure.

00:17:31 SPEAKER_00
Yeah. And I think there's pockets of maybe on the coast that maybe are a little bit more restrictive than others. But like. But for what it seems to be like more of the northern states on the east coast, right? Yeah.

00:17:46 SPEAKER_04
Up to that northern part of Virginia. Now, once you get down to Richmond and below, no, it's like the Midwest. It's an old school,

00:17:51 SPEAKER_00
it's like

00:17:55 SPEAKER_03
old school southern.

00:17:57 SPEAKER_02
Yep. Yep.

00:18:00 SPEAKER_00
Yeah. You know, and I just think what I think is really interesting, too, is all the people I talk to. that are very open about sexuality and not judging people. They're not judgmental. They're not yucking other people's yums. And they're not trying to force everyone to be like them. But the people who are close -minded are trying to force everybody to be like them. It's like, we're not, people who are open -minded aren't trying to, I mean, we're trying to educate you, but we're not trying to force it. Like, they're trying to force it, right? They're doing, it's a very different. dynamic going on there it's almost like the handmaid's tale is starting to become reality i mean i'm just read the book or seen that i have not i saw the original movie okay tasha hensbridge way back when i haven't i've not seen the series but and i've read the book and that's yeah that's exactly what it reminds me of

00:18:36 SPEAKER_04
almost like the handmaid's tale is starting to become reality i mean i'm just read the book or seen that i

00:18:44 SPEAKER_00
have not i saw

00:18:44 SPEAKER_04
i saw the original movie okay tasha hensbridge way back when i haven't i've not seen the series but and i've read the book and that's yeah that's exactly what it reminds me of

00:19:02 SPEAKER_00
And I've heard that book's been getting banned in places. Oh,

00:19:05 SPEAKER_04
I'm sure it has been. No doubt about that. It's, you know,

00:19:12 SPEAKER_04
know, it's, it's opening somebody's eyes and they don't want that. I'll tell you that now. Right. Yep. So it's,

00:19:23 SPEAKER_04
I'm glad people like you, I mean, you're putting yourself out there every day doing this podcast. you've even you know revealed yourself to the public now yeah i mean you know you're um hate to say it but you're almost making yourself a target too and probably and you don't know very possibly but but you know my response to that is i'm a whole person i'm not a partial person and i'm i i'm a whole person and i have a sexual sexual part to me and i'm not going to hide that i am not

00:19:34 SPEAKER_02
i mean

00:19:35 SPEAKER_03
mean you know you're

00:19:41 SPEAKER_03
to say it but you're almost

00:19:41 SPEAKER_04
making yourself a target too and probably and you don't know very

00:19:45 SPEAKER_00
very possibly but but you know my response to that is i'm a whole person i'm not a partial person and i'm i i'm a whole person and i have a sexual sexual part to me and i'm not going to hide that i am not a partial person i am i'm i'm whole i'm a whole person and sexual health is a part of people's mental health and so yeah that's that's something that i never tied it to until you your podcast and you know reading some of this other stuff is the tying the mental yeah mental health part of it with that and so many people don't like so many people put their sexuality over here like they think it's separate it's not integral

00:20:08 SPEAKER_04
that's that's something that i never tied it to until

00:20:12 SPEAKER_04
your podcast and you know reading some of this other stuff is the tying the mental yeah mental health part of it with that and

00:20:21 SPEAKER_00
so many people don't like so many people put their sexuality over here like they think it's separate it's not integral It's not a part of them, but you can't separate it out. You can't compartmentalize like that and be healthy.

00:20:32 SPEAKER_04
Exactly.

00:20:34 SPEAKER_00
It's not going to happen.

00:20:34 SPEAKER_04
not going

00:20:36 SPEAKER_00
You know, it's just not going to happen. I think that people need to just stop being so judgmental and thinking that they're right. I guess that's what I don't understand. It's like, I'm going to say my opinion and stuff, but I'm not going to go around trying to force everyone to think the way I think. I think that they should be not judgmental, but I'm not going to force them to. to think the way i think i i don't understand that kind of a mentality i don't even understand why people want to do that i mean other than the only thing i'd want to do is to have them be not non -judgmental but if they don't want to do something okay cool i don't care all right we'll do it stay in your own lane over there i'm good with that just stop coming into my lane telling me i shouldn't be in my lane it ruins lane please god sakes

00:21:07 SPEAKER_04
if they don't

00:21:10 SPEAKER_04
right we'll do it

00:21:12 SPEAKER_00
in your own lane over there i'm good with that just stop coming into my lane telling me i shouldn't be in my lane it

00:21:14 SPEAKER_04
stop coming

00:21:20 SPEAKER_04
ruins lane please god sakes

00:21:27 SPEAKER_00
so did you did you find like i feel like a lot of people too when they're they're reading kink or even writing it they're finding new kinks that they didn't even think they would be into like you know right like it's some it's a way to explore yeah very much so i you know i didn't i um

00:21:40 SPEAKER_02
to explore yeah

00:21:46 SPEAKER_03
very much so i you know i didn't

00:21:51 SPEAKER_04
um I studied to be a Roman Catholic priest for five years.

00:21:56 SPEAKER_03
And I was in seminary in a time in the 80s,

00:21:57 SPEAKER_04
was in seminary in a time in the 80s, late 80s and 90s, where I was a minority because I was a heterosexual. Ah.

00:22:09 SPEAKER_04
And I didn't, I never thought for a, I mean, the idea of being around gay guys was, and it's still not for me. Yeah. But I've learned that a kink I have is being pegged. It hasn't happened yet, but I would like for it to happen. And I had never thought in a hundred million years that that would happen from how I, you know, was indoctrinated in the church. But I'm not going to lie.

00:22:45 SPEAKER_04
going to lie.

00:22:46 SPEAKER_00
Right, right. And, you know, I think that part of that, too, is. we aren't our acts don't define our orientation we define it so even if you were to do something that isn't you know typical to a heterosexual person that doesn't like turn you gay like that's just silly that people think that like our acts don't define us i always put it that way our acts do not define us you know we define ourselves we define our orientation not what we've done you know like so exploration has nothing to do with pegging you or coloring you a certain way or boxing you into something. That's not the way it works. But people fear that, you know, like a lot of people think, oh, if you do that, then you must be blah, blah, blah, you know? Yeah.

00:23:31 SPEAKER_04
Yeah. Oh, yeah. Exactly. Yeah. No, I'm not. Not in a hundred million years. Right.

00:23:42 SPEAKER_04
Wouldn't mind finding out what it's like.

00:23:44 SPEAKER_00
Right. And I think that some people don't acknowledge the fact that the prostate is arousing for men. And, you know, that's one way to access it. So I've interviewed some people and actually interviewed two people that wrote a book about that. And he was talking about how it's just can give you the most amazing orgasm and has nothing to do with your orientation. It is accessing that particular area. And it can be arousing to people. Amen.

00:24:16 SPEAKER_04
Yeah, and I understand that there's even more nerve endings inside than there are in your clitoris, for goodness sakes.

00:24:26 SPEAKER_00
I don't know. I haven't counted. I haven't heard. I don't know about that, but I read that somewhere.

00:24:29 SPEAKER_04
that, but I read that somewhere. I was like, gee, that's a bunch.

00:24:32 SPEAKER_00
a bunch.

00:24:33 SPEAKER_04
That's a bunch. Yeah, I'm curious to know what the number is.

00:24:34 SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I'm curious to know what the number is. I know that the clitoris they've figured out is over 10 ,000 nerve endings. So yeah, I'm curious what it is there. How many, I'll have to look into that. I'm curious how many nerve endings are there. Yeah.

00:24:46 SPEAKER_04
nerve endings

00:24:48 SPEAKER_04
Over 10 ,000. Holy smokes.

00:24:50 SPEAKER_00
Over 10 ,000. I know that for the longest time they didn't know. And then the interesting thing is people who found out, I think it was found out through people who were doing the change surgeries. I'm drawing a blank on the name or where they're doing transition. Yeah, and that's how they found out because they're having to reconnect these things so they have sensation, right? So, you know, that's kind of how, that's actually how they found out. But, you know, we were talking, I was talking about this yesterday with, I was on an interview, and we were talking about how they just don't know very much about the clit. You know, it's just something that hasn't been studied, which is really,

00:25:28 SPEAKER_00
basically we've been gaslighted, or women have been gaslighted. By the entire medical community in modern medicine.

00:25:34 SPEAKER_02
the entire

00:25:39 SPEAKER_00
Because we didn't even know what the clit looked like. I went most of my life not knowing what it looked like. I have this thing inside me,

00:25:39 SPEAKER_01
we didn't

00:25:47 SPEAKER_00
this thing inside me, this organ, and I don't even know what it looks like. That's just wrong. With the advancements in medicine, this should not be happening. But they kept it from us. It was on purpose.

00:25:56 SPEAKER_04
they kept

00:25:59 SPEAKER_04
Another control.

00:26:02 SPEAKER_04
Another control.

00:26:03 SPEAKER_00
Yep, but not anymore. It's getting studied now. It's going to erase people's minds now.

00:26:10 SPEAKER_04
Where can I sign up for those studies?

00:26:14 SPEAKER_00
Yeah. So many studies are happening more and more. So this is a good thing. And it's good to have it not be ignored. I just feel like we've been just gaslit for generations.

00:26:31 SPEAKER_00
not really that different from a cock it engorges it's like you know like it's just yeah that's very frustrating yes it is but we these are things that we learned too like i think that even if you read a story that has even just like a little a word or a not and i don't think i'm not one who thinks that fiction has to teach something i think more that's non -fiction

00:26:40 SPEAKER_04
it is but

00:26:42 SPEAKER_00
we these are things that we learned too like i think that even if you read a story that has even just like a little a word or a not and i don't think i'm not one who thinks that fiction has to teach something i think more that's non -fiction but you can learn things from it. It's not the responsibility of fiction to teach, but you can still learn things from it. You can learn it from words. You can learn different positions. You could learn a communication style. So it is valuable in learning, but it's, I don't think the actual purpose of it is to teach.

00:26:57 SPEAKER_01
you can

00:27:14 SPEAKER_00
of it is to teach.

00:27:16 SPEAKER_04
No, it should be. It's entertainment. Yeah, it's exactly what it is. You know,

00:27:16 SPEAKER_00
it should be. It's entertainment. Yeah, it's exactly what it is.

00:27:21 SPEAKER_04
if somebody learns things from it while they're at it, okay. There's something wrong with that.

00:27:24 SPEAKER_00
something wrong with

00:27:26 SPEAKER_04
but you know you you're not writing a textbook no no i'm not writing non -fiction i do write non -fiction but when i'm writing fiction i'm writing fiction no like that's what i'm doing i'm writing a story i'm telling a story i'm being a storyteller i'm not i'm not putting down just facts i'm making stuff up you know i'm making up characters and people and situations and a lot of fun stuff well you do really you do really well with your character

00:27:31 SPEAKER_00
i'm not writing non -fiction i do write non -fiction but when i'm writing fiction i'm writing fiction no like that's what i'm doing i'm writing a story i'm telling a story i'm being a storyteller i'm not i'm not putting down just facts i'm making stuff up you know i'm making up characters and people and situations and a lot of fun stuff well

00:27:51 SPEAKER_04
you do really you do really well with your character your character yeah i have fun that's one of the reasons why you're you're you're so good is that character development because you know that's what i think really pulls me as a person in is that yeah that you know i'm not oh okay she spread her legs open and he you know did this that and the other wham bam thank you ma 'am done

00:27:55 SPEAKER_00
i have fun that's

00:27:56 SPEAKER_04
one of the reasons why you're you're you're so good is that character development because you know that's what i think really pulls me as a person in is that

00:28:09 SPEAKER_04
you know i'm not oh okay she spread her legs open and he you know did this that and the other wham bam thank you ma 'am done

00:28:19 SPEAKER_00
That's too cut and dried. There's so many more emotions that are involved in all of that. Exactly.

00:28:24 SPEAKER_04
I figured out for myself that I need the mental connection in order to connect with somebody sexually. I'm not one of these people that can just go out there and hook up with the first person I see and walk away. And nothing happened. I'm not I'm not wired that way. It's not.

00:28:51 SPEAKER_00
Right. And, you know, I've had porn stars come on and I've asked them that question before. Like, how do you get yourself in that that mind frame? Because you may have just met this person, you know, like they have to like, I would imagine just, you know, maybe maybe they're a person who doesn't necessarily need the connection as much or maybe they've just figured out ways to do that or, you know. Because some of them are bound to probably be doing that. I just met you yesterday and now we're going to film this scene, right? But not everybody's wired that way either, like you're saying. Everyone's different.

00:29:24 SPEAKER_03
Yep. Exactly.

00:29:28 SPEAKER_00
I think it's amazing how many different types of erotica there are in Smut. There's just so many. Anything from monster to hot wife to just male, female, gay. There's so many different options.

00:29:45 SPEAKER_04
Yes, very much so. I know from my own life experience that the Hot White thing does not... I read an author one time and I got mad.

00:29:50 SPEAKER_04
from my own life experience that the Hot White thing does not... I read an author one time and I got mad.

00:30:01 SPEAKER_00
Oh, yeah. Well, that's going to happen. You're going to have your triggers.

00:30:03 SPEAKER_04
You're going to have your triggers. Yeah, it triggered something in me and I was like, yeah,

00:30:08 SPEAKER_00
I can't keep reading this.

00:30:08 SPEAKER_04
I can't keep reading this.

00:30:12 SPEAKER_00
Right. And I think that that's true. I mean, you know, I think people have to figure out what they like and there are going to be things that trigger you because some of it is triggering, you know, depending on your life and your experiences and what you like and dislike. So that's definitely very normal.

00:30:31 SPEAKER_00
normal. And some people like swinging stories. Some people don't. Like some people don't want any kind of swinging in the story at all. Right. You know, and I've kind of played with writing all across the board. I kind of enjoy writing everything. I like to play around and try different things, you know, like. It's just a story.

00:30:57 SPEAKER_04
You're being you're you're being creative. It's, you know, it's what you need as a person.

00:31:03 SPEAKER_00
Oh, yeah. I can't imagine not writing like I did have a big chunk of my life where I didn't write. I wasn't very happy. So, you know, I know that I'm someone who needs to write. I was one of those people that started writing when I was a child. Like I was, I wrote down in a notebook, you know, like I'm like writing stories and I did a lot of poetry in high school. So I have to write. It's in me to write. And I know I'll write the rest of my life.

00:31:26 SPEAKER_04
You still have some of your stuff from when you were a kid?

00:31:29 SPEAKER_00
I do. I do. I have a big bag of it.

00:31:30 SPEAKER_04
have a big bag

00:31:33 SPEAKER_00
I was one of those. I was definitely a girly girl and I loved getting these like. These journals, right, that had like, you know, shells on them and swirls of purple and pink, you know, all these like super fun things look like an agate or something, you know, they were just super cool. And I was like, oh, I need that one to write poetry. And like that was part of the fun for me was finding the blank journal with the awesome cover. It usually was a hardcover, you know, like that was fun.

00:31:54 SPEAKER_01
was a hardcover,

00:31:56 SPEAKER_00
So, yeah, that was that was a thing I loved to do when I was in high school, especially. But that was very healing for me, too. Talking about writing being healing. You know, I went through a lot of painful things when I was a teenager, including the loss of my mother. And so poetry for me was very healing. I needed it and it helped me heal. You know, I think writing is healing. And do you feel like reading is, and we were talking about this, right? Reading is healing and writing is healing. There's healing on both sides of writing.

00:32:30 SPEAKER_04
Yeah. When my dad died in August in 2023, I put something out on my different pen name. I wrote something about my dad. He never had a great relationship, but I wrote something about that, and it helped me a lot, actually, because I couldn't be there for his funeral. I couldn't go.

00:32:55 SPEAKER_00
go.

00:32:57 SPEAKER_04
I didn't have the means to do it.

00:33:00 SPEAKER_00
Right, right. So I had to process in my own way,

00:33:01 SPEAKER_04
So I had to process in my own way, and writing is what did it for me.

00:33:06 SPEAKER_00
Yeah, yeah. You know, and I've heard some people say, like, if they couldn't say what they wanted to say to someone who passed, write them a letter. You know, like, as if they're still alive, write them that letter and tell them what you needed to tell them. Yeah. And it does something to us, you know? When we do that, we go through that process.

00:33:27 SPEAKER_04
Or part of the thing I hate about social media is it's become so easy to stay in contact with people.

00:33:35 SPEAKER_03
When I was growing up, I was writing letters.

00:33:42 SPEAKER_04
Because my parents would let me call long, long distance.

00:33:46 SPEAKER_04
So, you know, the girls that I met on like, you know, from band to whatnot, when I was in college, I was writing letters. That's what I was doing.

00:33:58 SPEAKER_02
Sure,

00:33:58 SPEAKER_04
sure. And that's, you know,

00:34:02 SPEAKER_04
when you commit something to paper like that, that's a big deal.

00:34:06 SPEAKER_00
It is. It is. And I think that it's a little bit like a slower process. You're thinking about it more than when you're saying something, right? Mm -hmm. Yeah.

00:34:17 SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I think, you know, writing letters have this kind of, yeah, it's kind of died off a little bit, right? I used to send greeting cards to all my friends on their birthdays.

00:34:24 SPEAKER_04
I used to send greeting cards to all my friends on their birthdays.

00:34:31 SPEAKER_00
Facebook. Right. Yet they still sell cards, but I'm sure that the business from it is a lot less than it used to be. They're probably making a lot less money.

00:34:43 SPEAKER_04
Sure is.

00:34:43 SPEAKER_00
is.

00:34:45 SPEAKER_04
I think that's the biggest thing I regret about social media. It's just taking away That part of creativity, I mean, connect your, your, your mind and your thoughts with your hand.

00:35:00 SPEAKER_02
Yeah.

00:35:01 SPEAKER_00
Yeah. And then, and then you might put something out there and then you have to deal with like censorship or somebody being a troll and being a jerk saying something, you know, like that's not, so that's a problem too. It's like, you can't even like express yourself without worrying, you know, like who's going to see this? What are they going to say? You know, are they going to be a jerk? Are they going to be a troll?

00:35:24 SPEAKER_04
That's one of the reasons why I stopped writing was I had fellow authors all of a sudden say something about me that was not true.

00:35:29 SPEAKER_03
of a sudden say something about me that was not true.

00:35:35 SPEAKER_03
Yeah. But it was,

00:35:37 SPEAKER_04
you know, it was out there. I was being ghosted and blocked. And it's like, you know what? I'm just going to step back because it hurt at that time.

00:35:48 SPEAKER_04
hurt at that time. Yeah. Now, now I understand that what somebody is showing you on social media,

00:35:56 SPEAKER_04
somebody is showing you on social media, 99 out of a hundred times is not who they really are. Yeah.

00:36:06 SPEAKER_04
And that's unfortunate because I've never been that way. What you get, what you see is what you get. And yeah, that's, I,

00:36:20 SPEAKER_04
I don't even mess with Twitter anymore. I think I'm on Blue Sky. That's where I found you on Twitter. And that's about it.

00:36:29 SPEAKER_00
I'm still there a little bit, but I've way cut back on my time there. And it's just, yeah, I just don't even, people don't see stuff. It's just, sometimes it feels like a waste of time because people aren't seeing it. And then the other thing that really pissed me off was the whole letting AI. crawl it's like so so you're just gonna use all of my erotic little poems and just eat them up you know like without my permission or anything and like that bugged me too so I kind of stopped doing that because I'm like I don't really want to give you fuel to learn to write like me because I want to be me I don't want you to try to be me exactly you know exactly that's why I'm trying to work to find my own voice

00:37:11 SPEAKER_04
know exactly that's why I'm trying to work to find my own voice

00:37:18 SPEAKER_04
Yes. You know, I get ideas and whatnot from reading things from you and from other authors. Excuse me, but in the end, I need to find my voice. Yes.

00:37:33 SPEAKER_03
I need to.

00:37:33 SPEAKER_02
100%. Yeah.

00:37:35 SPEAKER_03
I haven't found it yet. I'm getting there.

00:37:38 SPEAKER_00
It can take a while. And I feel like, too, for me, I feel like I'm trying different things. So, you know. it's moving all around. So it's not, it's not, it's not like set. In other words, I like to try different things and, you know, whatever ends up working really well, I'll probably can do more and more of that. But, you know, for me, it's like, I have one life. I want to, I want to try all these different things. And, and, you know, someone said to me recently in an interview, I said, well, I'm gonna try romanticity. And they're like, you just, just decided to try that. And I'm like, well, yeah, why not? You know, like if it fails in, okay, I'll just go on something else.

00:38:14 SPEAKER_04
yeah why did i try it you know like i don't know what do you got to lose if it doesn't work it doesn't work exactly then oh well okay i'll move on no big deal yeah i'm not afraid to fail i'm not afraid i was afraid when i was younger anymore no right when i was younger i was more afraid of failing that's 100 true yeah because i've gotten older and just realized that

00:38:15 SPEAKER_00
it you know like i don't know what

00:38:18 SPEAKER_04
do you got to lose if it doesn't work it doesn't work exactly

00:38:23 SPEAKER_00
oh well okay i'll move on no big deal yeah i'm not afraid to fail

00:38:29 SPEAKER_04
afraid to fail i'm not afraid i was afraid when i was younger anymore no right

00:38:34 SPEAKER_00
when i was younger i was more afraid of failing that's 100 true yeah because

00:38:39 SPEAKER_04
i've gotten older and just realized that As I like to say, I put up a whole lot less bullshit than I put up with 20 or 30 years ago. I think that's a gift of midlife too,

00:38:51 SPEAKER_04
that's a

00:38:51 SPEAKER_00
that's a gift of midlife too, where you just really don't care. It just keeps getting better. Because I just was interviewed by a couple of women in their 30s and I said, it just keeps getting better. You just don't care. You just become more and more yourself and you care less and less what other people think of you. It's wonderful.

00:39:11 SPEAKER_04
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I'm way too big. I know that. But you know what?

00:39:21 SPEAKER_04
Take me as I am. Yeah, I'm going to get better. I'm going to do my best to get better. But if you don't like me the way I am, there's a door.

00:39:31 SPEAKER_00
Exactly. You can move on.

00:39:33 SPEAKER_04
Exactly. Because I've got no time. Right. No time for that.

00:39:40 SPEAKER_00
So when you... Are you actively trying to write now, or are you kind of still taking a break from it?

00:39:46 SPEAKER_04
I should say taking a break, but I purchased a subscription to the Ulysses app. I don't know if you know what that is.

00:39:51 SPEAKER_04
subscription to the Ulysses app. I don't know if you know what that is.

00:39:56 SPEAKER_00
No, I haven't heard of that. What's that one? It's a writing app,

00:39:57 SPEAKER_04
It's a writing app, apparently.

00:40:02 SPEAKER_00
Oh, okay. Very cool. I haven't messed with it much yet,

00:40:04 SPEAKER_04
I haven't messed with it much yet, but I'm going to get into messing with it and see. how it helps me because I never was much of a storyboarder.

00:40:15 SPEAKER_04
never was much of a storyboarder. I don't know how about you, but I don't do that.

00:40:19 SPEAKER_00
don't do that. No.

00:40:21 SPEAKER_04
Yeah. But I do need, I do need someplace to put my ideas.

00:40:26 SPEAKER_02
Yeah. For sure. Yeah.

00:40:29 SPEAKER_04
And that I was always bad at, so I got to get better.

00:40:36 SPEAKER_00
everybody kind of finds their way like the guy i talked to today he records things like he if he's somewhere he voiced a text so he'll like just say it into his phone and then it will make a text so he does as an idea that's that's what he does and that's how he records it like yeah great idea it works for him bad idea either i didn't think about doing that but yeah yeah he's like if i'm you know out and about and i have an idea i'll just i'll speak it and then it puts it into text you know

00:40:44 SPEAKER_01
just say

00:40:51 SPEAKER_00
idea it works for him bad

00:40:53 SPEAKER_04
idea either i didn't think about doing that but yeah yeah

00:40:58 SPEAKER_00
like if i'm you know out and about and i have an idea i'll just i'll speak it and then it puts it into text you know Voice to text. I don't know if he uses an app or what. I'm assuming he must, but.

00:41:10 SPEAKER_04
Oh, there's the voice, like the voice memos app on a iPhone. I mean, that'd be the simplest. Yeah,

00:41:14 SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it's probably just that maybe it puts it in notes or something. Yeah. I haven't tried it, so I don't know, but.

00:41:22 SPEAKER_04
So, yeah, you've got a particular way that you, right now, I assume, then don't you figure it out something that works best for you.

00:41:30 SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I'm definitely more of a pantser. Like I don't I might have a little bit of an outline. I might have a little bit of idea. But sometimes I have an idea and the characters decide that's not what's going to happen. Like I was like I was wrong. Like they're right and I'm wrong. So I'm one of those people, too, that feel like the characters do kind of speak to me and they decide what's going to happen. It isn't always me. And I don't necessarily plan it. Like that's that's one thing I struggle. Like some people will be like. you know, oh, let's, you know, like say I'm going to be on a podcast. They're like, okay, well, we'll do your podcast in February and then, you know, let us know what's going to be live then. And I'm like, well, I don't know that yet. Like, I just fly by the seat of my pants. Like, I can't tell you what I'm going to be doing in six months. I don't know yet because I don't know.

00:42:17 SPEAKER_04
I know what I'm going to be doing tomorrow morning for God's sake. I can't plan it like that. Tomorrow morning, so who knows? So, you know. That's true.

00:42:22 SPEAKER_00
can't plan it like that.

00:42:26 SPEAKER_00
This is the other reason why I think, yeah, we should be writing and doing what we want because, yeah, we don't know when we're done. We don't know when we're not going to wake up. So do it. You got to do it.

00:42:37 SPEAKER_04
If you want to leave the park, wherever that is, do it.

00:42:44 SPEAKER_00
If you don't take your chance, then you just lose it. So, you know, I don't know. I don't know why people wouldn't. Although I understand people, you know, wanting to wait or be on a break like you or. just having writer's block or something like that. Like I understand that kind of a thing, but if you want to do it and you have something to write, put out there, do it.

00:43:06 SPEAKER_00
So when you're, when you're looking into your, your routine of what you like, do you tend to like to read or listen more books?

00:43:19 SPEAKER_04
I've never, ever really gotten into listening to books.

00:43:22 SPEAKER_00
A reader. Okay.

00:43:25 SPEAKER_04
You know, there's a lot of people nowadays that are visual.

00:43:30 SPEAKER_03
And of course I grew up on radio, like listening to baseball games and stuff like that.

00:43:34 SPEAKER_03
radio, like

00:43:37 SPEAKER_04
listening to baseball games and stuff like that. So sure.

00:43:40 SPEAKER_03
So sure. Yeah.

00:43:41 SPEAKER_04
You know, a lot of my, what appeals to me is that listening to be able to listen to that. I should try. books like that sometime i don't know why i haven't but it's you know it's something to obviously explore yeah i mean one thing i like about audiobooks is you can be doing other things while you're listening like you know you're not going to be washing the floor while you're reading a book but you can do that when you're listening to an audiobook you know like that's so for me that's a nice thing road trip or something like that yeah yeah for sure

00:44:00 SPEAKER_00
i mean one thing i like about audiobooks is you can be doing other things while you're listening like you know you're not going to be washing the floor while you're reading a book but you can do that when you're listening to an audiobook you know like that's so for me that's a nice thing road

00:44:13 SPEAKER_04
so for me that's a nice thing road trip or something like that yeah

00:44:17 SPEAKER_00
yeah for sure Yeah, that works too.

00:44:21 SPEAKER_04
too. I've got to go back to Pennsylvania here in a month, so it may be time to do that.

00:44:26 SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I mean, it's worth a try. You'll find out if you like it or not. For a lot of people, some voices work for them and others don't. So it's all an experiment too.

00:44:40 SPEAKER_04
Yeah, very much so.

00:44:43 SPEAKER_00
Well, is there anything else that you wanted to talk about with talking about writing Smut or reading it? Anything that you want to say that we?

00:44:51 SPEAKER_04
No, no, we've had a very enjoyable chat. I appreciate it.

00:44:55 SPEAKER_00
We have. It's been very nice. Very fun. I love to talk about this kind of stuff. And it's just, it's great to be able to talk about it openly and not, you know, hiding it or, you know.

00:45:07 SPEAKER_04
Yes. I mean, you know, nobody's going to probably ever know that it was me who was on this interview. And that's fine.

00:45:15 SPEAKER_00
And that's fine. Exactly.

00:45:17 SPEAKER_04
But, you know, I got an opportunity to express myself. I appreciate you allowed me to do that.

00:45:25 SPEAKER_00
Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. I love to do that. And I think every perspective is very important. And someone will identify with what you've said and be like, yeah, you know, that fits with me. And I think that's important to me to put all of these opinions out there to reach all the people and them think of it. Yeah, that sounds like me. And they don't. feel as alone or they just feel like, yeah, that's not just me that feels that way, you know?

00:45:51 SPEAKER_04
Exactly.

00:45:53 SPEAKER_00
Well, thank you so much. This was really wonderful and we will connect again in the future, I'm sure.

00:45:59 SPEAKER_04
That sounds good. Thank you.

00:46:01 SPEAKER_00
Thank you. You have a good night.

00:46:02 SPEAKER_04
You too. Okay.

00:46:05 SPEAKER_00
Bye -bye.

00:46:06 SPEAKER_04
Yeah.